Suburban vs Express Conversion Van

[pajoube]

I have been looking at Suburban vs Express conversion vans. Are they the same frame and engine? Major price differences between these two, which makes me believe they get a huge price for the Suburban name.
PJ

[Scott_IN_WVa]

I am not knocking General Motors,but it seems like the Suburbans rust a lot,I like there layout and etc....but this is just my personal observation or impression....someone correct me if they feel different. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Mosey]

I have a 1989 Suburban with over 180k miles on it and no rust, none at all anywhere. Of course, if I still lived in Michigan it would be rusted out like everything else up there!

I don't know anything about the van you're talking about, but I don't care for vans in general because there is no front end to absorb the impact of a head on crash. That's the reason I drive full sized trucks. A Suburban also handles better in high cross wind situations.

[rozett]

Get an Excursion. I have one. Bought it one year-old with 18K miles. I just love it. It's built on the F250/350 Superduty chassis. It'll pull a 10K pound trailer like a dream.

Yesterday I went to the feed store and loaded up 20 bags of shavings, a dozen 50# bags of horse feed, a couple of bags of dog feed and a few misc. other items. Had room left over for my tool chest.

[DUMBDOG]

The value retention of the Suburban is quite high in comparison to the Excursion.

[pajoube]

That is the reason I was looking at the conversion van, large capacity for hauling that can be kept warm or cool.
PJ

[Pat]

rozett, What kind of mileage do you get with your Suburban. Ground truth from a real user means more to me that all those bogus EPA stickers.

Pat

[Gary_in_Indiana]

The Suburban is built on the pickup frame, be it 1500 or 2500. The van frame is different. Personally, I like the Suburban. I drove A K-1500 Suburban before I got my Tahoe (essentially a shortened Suburban). I'm considering going to a K-2500 Suburban now as I'm towing more and heavier and have to use things other than my Tahoe (like my Ford F-450 dually dump truck. I just like using one vehicle for most of my stuff and think the K-2500 Suburban will fill the bill and let me keep the F-450 out at the farm.

As to mileage, in town on short (1-3 mile), stoplight to stoplight trips I got 10-11 mpg. Towing heavy on the road I got about the same. Non-towing road runs got me up into the mid teens. I don't think they're designed or built with fuel economy in mind. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

For comfort and stability, I'd take the Suburban over the van ten times out of ten. Generally speaking, there's better visibility from the Suburban, too. Good luck with whatever you decide. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[DUMBDOG]

I get 15-17 miles per gallon with the suburban. Around town or on the road depending on the conditions.

[Pat]

DumbDog, That is great mileage for such a tank. You must be a darned good driver, steady on the throttle and anticipating stops etc. I know folks who drive so poorly that they can't get 17 with a much smaller package and about 1/2 the HP potential. I'm always highly suspect of the EPA mileage figures. Not that anyone cheats or it is a hoax, just that it doesn't represent real people in real driving. Thanks to all who responded. Given our anticipated annual mileage and other economic factors we need to actually consider fuel economy realistically not just as a passing curiosity for the first time.

Thanks to all who responded.

Pat

[pajoube]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and ideas.
PJ

[Fishman]

My parents have a 2001 Suburban 2500 4wd with the 6.0 liter. They get 13-14 in mixed driving and 15-16 all highway. That's only about a 1 mpg penalty compared to my 4wd Chevy x-cab with the 5.3 liter. I doubt that a full-sized van would provide any benefit in terms of improved gas mileage.

[Pat]

Fishman, Thanks for the report. A van was never considered, as it just doesn't fit our requirements so well.

I did take a look at the Avalanche today. I can think of better ways to spend $45K out the door, for us. I'm sure for the folks who could use a SUV to good advantage or for the most part would do OK with a short bed crew cab and only once in a while need a full length pick up bed and for only selected (docile domestic socially acceptable) cargo during mild weather and when there is no "pilferage" problem if unattended, then the Avalanche might make sense.

The transformer toy aspect seems well designed and it is easy to transform but could use a better way to store the removable pieces. I think it is essentially a gimmic and will appeal to the gimmic desirous minority. A short bed crew cab with the bed extender and a tonneau is essentially the same thing for seeriously fewer dollars. I couldn't sit up in the drivers seat as my head hit the ceiling and I'm shrinking with age (under 6'2" now). I could find a moderately comfortable position with about a finger width of clearance over my head by tilting the seat back, a lot. Luckily, the pedals adjust for different leg lengths so I could run the seat forward a hair so I could reach the steering wheel with the seat tilted back and lower the pedals away from me so I wasn't in a rapid leg cramping popsition.

It is a yuppiemobile for the gimmic/gadget inclined subset. Lots of "fancy" features. Heated and cooled seats, separate passenger, driver, and back seat climate controls, On*, weight sensing seats that turn off the air bag if passenger is light weigh, nice Bose sound system, and on and on. One feature I didn't like was that the battery was dead and I couldn't unlock the back doors. The slide mechanism for the door lock "manual" control slid back and forth with light force, it just didn't unlock the doors. Use your imagination on that. An accident could disrupt electrical power and getting out would be a contortionist's trick.

From what I see reported here, the mileage penalty for seriously stout vehicles isn't so great if they are driven reasonably.

Thanks again,

Pat

[Alan_L_Texas]

I'm on my second Suburban (well its really a GMC Yukon XL) and I've never had any rust. Maybe 350 miles from the Gulf of Mexico is not enough of a salt-air test, but up here, no problem.

[Alan_L_Texas]

If you want cargo space the van probably has more, but the Suburban handles and rides much better. I'm on my second one, and really like the whole package.

My '97 Suburban 4 X 4 with 350 V8 got 16 mpg highway, which is mostly how it was driven. Seems like it would drop to 14 or so with some stop and go traffic. Our 2001 Yukon XL 4 X 4with 5.3 V8 gets a little better - we got as much as 18 on the highway going on vacation. Probably 16 or so most of the time.

The Excursion is a real gas drinker from what i hear. Somewhere in the 12 mpg range on the highway. It is bigger than the Suburban, but I can tell you it rides very harshly, if that matters to you. If not, it is a very good looking machine, and will flat haul some cargo.

The Suburban has great resale value, reducing the cost to drive factor. I think the Suburban is a very reasonably priced vehicle anyway, when you consider what you get. I highly recommend it.

[Fishman]

Pat,

I need to highjack the thread for just a moment, hopefully to save you some grief.

I (and a couple of friends) have tried tonneau covers and have had uniformly bad luck. If you live anywhere in N. Am., the temperature extremes make it too loose in the summer and too tight in the winter. If you undo it in the winter and don't have a heated garage, you will have to roll it up until spring. This is true of the snap variety, as well as the newer snapless designs. The last one I had cost me $350 (top of the line Extang) and was billed as a 12-month design. . . easy to get into no matter what the weather. Well, you still couldn't re-fasten it. I now have an A.R.E. Z-series fiberglass topper ($1,375) and couldn't be more pleased. If you like the look of a tonneau, then a solid fiberglass lid might be something to consider.

Perhaps someone else has had better luck with a different design?

[Pat]

Fish Man, Before I forget to mention it, we had a Dr. Fish (PhD type doctor) at the lab where my wife and I worked. ANd yes, of course, he was an ichthyologist.

Anyway, thanks for the advice regarding tonneau covers but you may have me confused with someone else, or you may have me just confused. I have no interest in the traditional tonneau cover like those of sports car origin for a pick up bed application. I agree it would be marginal for our needs. I drove a '59 MGA from SOCAL to Minot ND and successfully used the tonneau cover in both climates. It was the "common sense" fastener and snap fastener variety with a zipper up the middle so you could drive with half of it in place. The convertible top shared the same fastener anchor points but we really didn't get the opportunity to take the top up and down a lot or use the tonneau in the winter due to temps, wind and snow.
The 3 part tonneau cover on the Avalanche looks to be pretty easy to use and has two easily operated levers on each of the three sections that serve to unlock them for removal. The sections are well gasketed and should be pretty storm tight as well as being light enough for smaller folks to handle OK. Pretty good system IMHO but since it is custom for that vehicle and we aren't too interested in that vehicle I only report the information for other's consumption. The new Dodge Dakota short bed crew cab has an OEM tonneau as well. It is a one piece with bows to stiffen it and make it convex to shed rain and snow melt. Unfortunately I didn't get to try taking it off and on as the salesguy didn't know how to operate it and I didn't wan't to mess anything up out of ignorance. It might be OK but more subject to being difficult in cold weather with freezing moisture in mechanism and the material not so flexible/stretchable.

The two styles of bed covers under consideration are: 1. the roll desk type (they take a bit of space when rolled) but I thought they could freeze up in melting and refreezing conditions and 2. the hard cover with pneudraulic assist. They offer the most security, work in all weather, but can't be removed easily to allow tall cargo. I saw one of the hard variety that opened from either side to a higher angle than the standard rear opening variety but still would get in the way of tall cargo. So our jury is still out. Maybe if the mechanics of removing and replacing a hard cover isn't too bad it would be THE system as the bed is so small in the short bed crew cab type vehicles that the hard cover wouldn't weigh too much to handle.

We definitely aren't in a super rush and have time to take our time. Need to be careful. These things are so darned expensive, I don't want to make an expensive mistake that we will be using for several years (vehicles last us a long time).

Thanks again for your input. If I wasn't familiar with the "old style" tonneau your warning would have prevented a minor disaster.

Pat

[Fishman]

Sounds like you've got the right idea there, Pat.

One other thing which is relevant to the general thread of this discussion is the perceived need for a vehicle to carry oversized/tall cargo. I agonized over this quite a bit, which is why I initially purchased a soft tonneau cover. However, since I purchased my topper about two years ago, I find that most things fit in the back of my pickup anyway. For really tall items one can borrow a friends trailer, rent one for about $25/day, or get one of their own.

[Pat]

Fishman, I use a cheap blue tarps, bungee cords, cargo net, and parachute cord as applicable with my 1 ton Dodge with service bed and lilkewise the longbed Dakota (currently our only vehicles except tractor, dune buggy, and bikes). The new vehicle will be for my wife. She is into antiques (I mean furniture not me, OK well that too). I call it old used furniture but apparently if it is old enough it somehow is supposed to be more important. Anyway, I have a trailer but she doesn't do trailers. She can but doesn't like to drive the 1 Ton dually Dodge except on back roads and NOT WITH A TRAILER ON IT. Trailer is a bit much for the poor ole Dakota, about 18'3" of floor plus tongue, 2000 lbs, no brake controller. So the best compromise this side of marriange counseling or divorce court would seem to be something like a 4 door pickup with at least some bed that can handle tall stuff. You'd think a van would do it but... NO VAN NO WAY. At one point I thought she was overcome by a brief moment of lucidity (getting in touch with her masculine side?) but it passed.

Maybe some of the fiberglass bed covers have better assist but the ones I have tried were darned heavy, too heavy for her casual use even if there wasn't a tall cargo consideration. They seal better and look better but that isn't too important if they don't do what else you need done.

If I'm lucky, maybe she'll let me drive it, whatever IT is.

Pat

[Henry]

Pj,

I own a 2000 Chevy 1500 Express Conversion Van. The customization was done by Sherrod, Inc. in Jacksonville Fl. I paid about $32k for the whole thing. It's loaded with the TV-VCR, extra headphone jacks, 4 captain's chairs, electric reclineable rear seat, tinted windows, V8, extra lighting...... Just prior to the Express, I owned 2 Chevy Astro's (the last one was white, but honestly I havn't been driving thru the DC area lately /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif . I've never owned a Suburban, but here's my list of pro's and con's:

Pro's

- Extremely comfortable ride
- Best highway cruiser I've ever owned
- Can cruise at 75 mph all day long
- Massive amounts of room for passengers
- 15 MPG
- At 50K miles absolutely 0 problems with drive train, chasis, etc.
- Easily pulls a dual axle 12 foot loaded trailer (gear for 30 Boy Scouts)

Cons'

- Some of Sherrod's customizations are low quality
- Have had problems with plastic trim, seat-belts, TV
- Terrifying in the parking garage /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

Based on my experiences, the big Van is great, but pay lots of attention to the quality of the customizations and pay attention to how the warranty works for the non-GM installed parts.

Good luck!
Henry

[pajoube]

Henry,
Thanks for the great comments, sounds like this is the right vehicle for you.
I have always loved the suburban but my current needs dictate that I have large amounts of room inside that can be cooled or heated (plants, trees hauling). I then looked at the Express van and also the Savanna van by GMC and was very impressed. One vehicle I looked at had some very soft leather bucket seats up front that sold my wife. If we can get seats like that we probably will move ahead. We will stay with the basics, as most of the time the aft seats will be taken out and a rubber mat will be laid down.
Sure was happy to see your comments regarding the comfort and handling.
Thanks again.
PJ

[four_by_ken]

A Suburban, more so if a 3/4 ton, will tow much nicer than a van of any kind.

And they are differant frames. And Chevy pickups and Suburbans DO NOT have the same frame.

Ken H.

[pajoube]

Thanks Ken,
I ended up getting a 2001 Suburban with only 28,000 miles on it. This is an LT model and I really like it.
PJ