Pole Barn Floors

I've heard many posts about pouring a slab for the
floor of pole barns, but my problem is the $$$ and I wanted
just the dirt floor. Does anyone have any comments onthis, like the floor getting too muddy in spring etc.
Thnx...Shawn

What about putting stone down? It would prevent spring mud, plus be a good base for the concrete, should you ever want to do that.

Thanks for the advice Mike, actually I was thinking
about crushed shale but where the barn is located is
hard to access with a tri-axle truck. a 4x4 can get there
very easy, but its bed is soo small.
Shawn

Make the barn's floor higher then the surrounding site. That will keep water from flowing inside, and what does get in will drain out. It's also just good building practice.

You might also be able to find some low cost materials to cover the floor. I have seen old cut up roofing material used in this way. Also, old carpet or tar paper. In the old days, you used to see waste oil used also, but of course, that's a no no nowdays. Gravel is always an option, but personally, I hate working on gravel.

FWIW
Dave

I echo Dave's comment on making floor of barn higher. I built a 30x40 pole barn 3 years ago, with thought of pouring floor a year later (now complete); however, I did not take into account drainage. Needless to say, first thaw of spring (and spring rains) made it interesting. Somewhat embarassing to ask neighbor for help in getting my car out of the garage (sunk to axle).

Due to my lack of foresight and poor planning, ended up having to grade around exterior of barn, trench and put in drain tile, before we poured the floor.

IndianaPaul

I agree that high and dry is a requirement. I would also remove all topsoil from the building site and replace w/ bank run gravel. The nicest horse barn in the world isn't worth crap if it's sittin' on top soil! [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

I have a 60x40 Pole barn that came with the home when we bought it (the house was about 4 years old). The barn's floor was dirt - in order to build some dog kennel runs I put in some concrete but left the rest of it dirt. Until I could afford the concrete (which I now have - 6" with 4x4 rebar and a trench drain in the center), I used to treat the dirt floor with the sodium chloride treatment that the county used on the dirt roads near our house. This stuff was great - it came in bags, you spread it out on the ground, and then wet it down with a hose (you can even smooth out the floor first and then do it so you get an even result). Once it dried, the floor was like concrete and the dust problem was pretty much gone. The county uses it on the dirt roads and treats the areas in front of the houses to keep the dust down. I found new ill effects to my dogs or anyone by having it on the barn floor either.

I suggest you contact your County roadway dept and ask them where you can purchase the stuff. It comes in liquid and solid form and is fairly cheap. I think I treated my entire floor for about 60$ and it lasted several years.

Concrete is the way to go though if you can afford it. I got outside aprons, 6" of concrete, etc., all for about 6K. It really makes a difference in the long run.

Good luck!

-Bob

I bought my property with a pole building already in place. They must have made the same mistake as the building is lower than the surrounding ground on three of its four sides. Two of those three are gentle slopes I'm hoping can be cured with a couple days with a D4 dozer. The third side, however, is a different story.

There must be a three foot drop over a three to four foot fun along that side. Of course, the natural slope running parallel to that side goes toward my drive. Any thoughts as to how I might handle that other than the dozer. I'd like to avoid that because of the amount of dirt I'd have to move and because of other considerations as well.

Lastly, assuming I get the drainage problem handled, what would you suggest for the floor? I want to eventually pour concrete but that might not be in this years budget [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I think right now I'd like to at least get something over the dirt in a 40' wide area either 24' or 32' deep. The entire building is 70' wide and 80' deep so I'm looking at under 20% to under 25% of the total area at this point in time. As money allows, I'd like to put concrete over this area, stone some more area, concrete over that, etc., until I have the whole thing with a concrete floor.

<font color="blue"> The first pole barn I built was a 24x32 at my last residence. It was poorly drained due to being downhill of the driveway, even though it was on gravel as well as a side hill. The crusher run was always damp and everything turned to mold or mildew [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] that was stored there except the boat. I corrected that mistake when I moved and built my dream building. I picked a high spot with a slight incline to encourage drainage, dug the high side down a foot and filled with gravel to 6" above grade and then leveled an area large enough for my 40x60 with gravel (40 loads). While the Mennonite built the frame, I dug underdrains for the floor. They included the cement in the price of the building, I do not regret it. This building can house anything, it is high and dry and useful, not a damp storage like the last one. If you can not afford the floor now, build it with one in mind and construct it with the pad well above current grade level. You can buy calcium cheap at a commercial farm supply outlet such as Agchem if you want that for now. I have seen cold patch used in these buildings as well, works ok as long as you put plywood under your jack before trying to lift the car [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] </font color>

Now with all this talk about draining, I may have a problem. There is a little hill next to where I want to put my barn. Its kind of like this... \___________ There is about 20 feet from the \ to where the barn is. Now this is in some woods, but most of the soil drains REALY well. What do you all think? This is realy the only good place to put it on my land. Should I put in a french drain before the barn anyway?

BTW, The hills not that big. Heres a picture of my Jeep on it...... hill

Paul,

I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I am putting my pole barn on a slope as well. Here is a picture of my pad, showing the slope, and where I cut into it to get the pad to grade. The stakes are kind of tough to see, but currently there is about 20' from the stake to the slope.

I am going to cut into the slope about 15 more feet, and will attempt to cut it down below my grade to create a swale. I am sure when it rains hard, it will not suffice, so I plan on digging a trench which gets slightly deeper from the middle to the ends, and putting in some type of drain tube with holes in it, and covering it with some rock (like a french drain), and allowing the water to drain to daylight on each end.

Anytime you have a higher elevation adjacent to a structure you will have to accommodate not only the direct flow of rainwater, but also the slow seepage that will find its way to lower ground.
Even a gradual slope will mean a lot of surface area/runoff.

I would suggest that you install some type of drainage system to draw that water away from your building [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] A gravel filled french drain sloped to either end is easy enough to do now while you have good access.

DeereHunter,

I have got a poured floor and with my tractor coming in and out, it does get quite dirty. While I would still prefer a poured floor, I would consider the alternatives very carefully in light of this.

Buck

That is the best solution, plan good drainage into the project. When I purchased my house, I did not realize there was a sump pump hidden under the steps (it is a raised ranch) until the first time we had a good two day rain. I heard it running and could not believe they installed that thing instead of draining the lot. I hired a backhoe and we dug along the driveway edge where the water pooled, to the house and then across the front of the house and garage and over the hill into the woods. This house was on high ground, but the water table would build with enough rain to flood me out if that pump failed [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] . We used perfurated PE pipe with a base and covering of stone, and plenty of it. I installed two catch basins while I was at it to boot. The whole project cost me less than a thousand dollars with me as the laborer and restoration contractor [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]. The only water in that pit now is from my dehumidifyer in the summer months, otherwise it is so dry the spiders try to reside there. When I built my barn, the drainage is the first thing I looked at after reflecting back on my first small barn project. I had always intended to build a cement gutter across the front of that building and drain it out the back over the hill by installing tile under the floor prior to pouring one, but I never completed it before we moved. The lack of land and proximity to property lines dictated where it was to be built, I had no choice. You can fill quite a bit to obtain the results you are looking for once you install the drainage, that will ensure the water will not rise into the building. Gravel can be purchased fairly cheap here in NY, many private pits. In other areas of the country there is an assortment of fill materials that are suitable as well. I have seen the blacktop that was milled from a road project given away for just that purpose as well.

Dave,
Why don't you just bring in some fill and raise the the area where your going to locate slab. Probably a lot cheaper than digging in drains, etc.

Argee,

Bringing in fill to get it above the slope would cause about a 6 foot drop on the low side of the barn.

I am not putting in a slab, so digging a trench and putting in a drain tube w/rock will be pretty darn cheap. I'll use my tree spade to dig the trench. This should take me all but a couple hours to complete the job.

Darn..........Gatorboy....you got some real nice toys [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] can I come over and play...... [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I used to treat the dirt floor with the sodium chloride treatment that the county used on the dirt roads near our house. This stuff was great - it came in bags, you spread it out on the ground, and then wet it down with a hose (you can even smooth out the floor first and then do it so you get an even result). Once it dried, the floor was like concrete and the dust problem was pretty much gone. The county uses it on the dirt roads and treats the areas in front of the houses to keep the dust down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't sodium chloride salt? Or is this something else?

I have dust problems in two buildings with dirt floors... no drainage problems really but the dust problem is bad because the dirt hasn't been wet for many years.

<font color="blue">I used to treat the dirt floor with the sodium chloride </font color>
THINK he meant calcium choride. Sodium choride IS salt and CaCl is what they use on roads and parking lots to keep the dust down as well as fill tires.

Just another cheap way of doing a floor is to take a bag of sakrete mix, one per square yard of floor area or so, and rototill it into the dirt, level it all out and roll/tamp. I've seen plans for this as a cheap kind of basketball court and it should work equally well for a pole barn floor. (Don't even bother to water - it will draw moisture from the dirt and air and harden up on its own

Sounds like a kind of Soil Cement!
Leo

Yes, that's the stuff.

I put it down in my barn several years ago (prior to do any concrete work a year or so later) and the stuff worked like a champ. Hard as concrete, no dust, and really made a difference for things.

The local county uses it also - mine was in dry form and I spread it first, then sprayed water on top to wet it down and let it soak in. Took about an hour or so but after it dried then things were ok. Wasn't a problem for my dogs or other livestock either.

Good luck!

-Bob

Bob,

How does it hold up to vehicle traffic? Does it bust up, or does it hold together?

Steve

It holds up very well. I put quite a bit down, though, so that might have had something to do with it. If you don't blade or dig it out I'm sure it would last you for quite a while - I got at least 2 years out of mine before we put 6 inches of concrete over it for the flooring.

Good luck!

-Bob

Which stuff? Sodium Chrloide (salt) or Calcium Chloride? About what kind of coverage did you use? Did you use a spreader or something to get the coverage somewhat even?

Sounds like something I'll have to try. I have a lot to do in the coming years and thousands of sq feet of concrete floors isn't on the list. Thanks much [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img].

If I'm not mistaken, it was Calcium Chloride. I spread it with a lawn spreader and then watered it down afterwards. I used a pretty heavy coverage / covering (you couldn't always see the dirt floor after I laid it down) - which is what the dealer (who sold me the material) said I should do.

It was well worth the money - If I didn't put down the concrete, I'm sure I would have done it again.

Good luck!

-Bob

I've been hitting the floor $$ dilema myself and have been intrigued with this product Poly Pavement - soil solidifier I have no affiliation with them, but I will be buying one of thier 5gal buckets to try out for the dogrun/kennel i'm building.

Dan

Interesting find, Dan. That DOES look interesting. The cost is not horrible, either, and it sounds like it's perfect for a DIY project.

Unlike asphalt!