Pond Maintenance When Water Is Low

It's taken me a number of years to realize that ponds don't take care of themselves. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

The first few years after my parents bought the property, we actually used to swim in the pond. Now, a couple of decades later, the algae bloom as well as the number of water fowls fouling the water has deterred us from even sticking our hands in there if we can help it. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Also, the trout/bass/catfish population has deteriorated to just bass and maybe a few catfish.

Pop never talked to me about what all he did to keep things perky, and now that he is gone and the pond is in my hands, I need to do some real learnin' on the subject.

Over on that tractor forum (which shall remain anonymous [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ), I heard various suggestions for controlling plant growth. The one that appealed to me the most was the use of grass carp, although I'm not sure they're legal in this state (California).

Some years the water level drops down to almost nil during the hot months (see attached picture), and I've heard that one thing you can do is to go in with a bulldozer and just scrape off a layer of soil to give things a fresh start.

I recently heard that it might be better to just scatter chicken poop all over the pond bottom when it's pretty dried out. Not sure how that helps, but I'm not much of a poop expert. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

Just wondering how other folks keep their ponds fresh and clean.

Harv -- Our pond is a LOT more healthy when the water is aerated. We use a 1.5" line from a nearby stream set high so it splashes into the deep end. Our neighbors use a small windmill pump to do the same thing. Those years I've neglected to connect the line to the creek our pond is one huge algae bloom. This year, despite the heat, I can see the bottom eight feet down.

Pete

Harv - I always thought of you to be the Duke of Poop!

[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, I do not have a pond, but I have been interested in them for a while, and study and ask questions of those who have them. One thing I have observed, in print and practice, is the pond edges stay clean when they are sharp and deep as opposed to shallow and sloping. I don't know how deep, but I know others have had their ponds dug around the edges to help control the weeds. Seems like a great excuse to rent a 'hoe......uh, backhoe - we ain't in that place where we all understand what hoe's are anymore, are we? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Pete -

Aeration sounds interesting. I'll look into that. Do you know any formulas or rules of thumb about how much is required for what volume of water?

Knucklehead -

Crisp edges around my pond could be quite a challenge. In other words, I'm not sure I want to work that hard. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I'm pretty sure this pond always had pretty "natural" edges, even back when it was clean. I recall it was easy to wade in almost anywhere except along the dam.

<font color="blue">Seems like a great excuse to rent a 'hoe</font color>

If I had money, I'd love any excuse to use a backhoe, but I gotta tell ya, the edge of the pond is the scariest place I can think of to use a tractor, whether there's water in the pond or not. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Hi Harv,

Glad to see you made it over here to the new site.

The pond:

I had a green water problem with my fishtank, and you would not believe how many articles reference ponds. Many of the solutions work for ponds and fishtanks.


Here is a link that might help:

Pond Maintenance

Take care,

Joe

<font color="blue">the edge of the pond is the scariest place I can think </font color>

Anyone remember what happened to this 'hoe when he got too close to the edge? [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Harv,

If there's someone in your area who maintains one of those old cable draglines they can clean out your pond without having to drain it. We have a guy in our area who keeps one of those old beasts running just for that purpose. He stays pretty busy cleaning out the ponds for the dairies.

Just a thought,
Dave

Joe -
Thanks for the link. I haven't read it all yet, but I get the feeling they're mostly dealing with smaller ponds. I guess the same principles apply, though. Just have to do a little calculating. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Bill -
You referring to this hoe? Yeah, I remember. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Dave -
<font color="blue">they can clean out your pond without having to drain it</font color>

Yeah, I recall some discussions about that, but I'm wondering if there's a way to take advantage of the fact that my pond practically dries up (naturally) every few years. Seems like a good opportunity to jump in and do something. If only I knew what. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Harv,

Yep, that's the 'hoe.
I did attach a picture, but it's not where we are accustomed to looking for attachments (yet). [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Actually I like the layout even better than TBN, and who woulda thought it could be improved on? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Bill

Harv, what fills your pond? Runoff from a creek, artesian aquifer, regular aquifer, or a combination of those?

Bill -
<font color="blue">I did attach a picture, but it's not where we are accustomed to looking for attachments (yet)</font color>

Oops! [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] I did miss the attachment. I knew where to look, since I posted a pict of my own at the top of this thread, but like you say, I'm not used to looking there yet. [Don't want to invite computer critics here, but the word "Attachment" is illegible on my system/browser, too. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] ]

Kilt -
<font color="blue">what fills your pond?</font color>

Uhhh... water? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

There are three inlet creeks to my pond. All fed by mountain snowmelt.

Harv,

I think ponds just have to be cleaned out from time to time because of their nature. Runoff brings silt and the banks erode over time until you end up with mud flats. This leads to even more evaporation as the volume decreases while the surface area remains the same. It's true that somewhat steep banks are good for ponds.

So, how to clean them out? Dragline, excavator, or dozer are about the only ways. I don't know how your soil is, but here in clay land, trying to dry out a pond enough to use a dozer is a pain. That mud at the bottom of the pond is real deep, and it stays wet for a long time. I spent about 30 hours cleaning out a neighbors little 1/2 acre pond (that looked dry) with a Deere 550 dozer and I think I could of dug a new pond faster.
Dozers are just not worth a hoot in mud, and it's hard on the machine also.

Excavators are a better machine for the job, but then you need something else to move the spoils to their resting place.

There really isn't any good answer, it costs whatever you do.

Dave.

<font color="blue">it costs whatever you do</font color>

That's the honest answer I didn't want to hear. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I know what you mean about the pond bottom. Even when mine is pretty well dried out, there are soft spots that could easily stick a tractor or even a bulldozer. I saw pictures of when my dad brought in a bulldozer to clean and enlarge our pond, but that was after several years of drought and the thing was baked dry for several consecutive months.

Too bad. If I was sure I wouldn't get stuck, I think I could do some real good with my box blade and FEL (hope y'all understand tractor talk over here [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )

We put in a pond (about an acre) a couple of years ago and the edges were gently sloped to encourage wetland bird habitat. The edges have started to grow up in cattails and such but the water is still clean. The aeration idea sounds interesting and it would provide a nice visual for our B&amp;B guests as well - I am thinking of small windmill with a line running to the deep part of the pond. Anyone done this - ideas about suppliers?

Thanks

Harv:
The ammonia in the chicken manure may be the active ingredient that helps clean up.
Is the surrounding area fertilized or are the feeder steams subjected to fertilizer runoff?
Altering the PH of the pond may stop the algae bloom but I can't recomend on how to do this.

Egon

Harv - Here is a link to some more info....www.thepondguy.com/

I just received their lastest catalog. Lots of neat stuff. Aerators...windmills...natural and chemical controls. Chuck

Bob -
Please share your experiences with the rest of us as your own pond matures and you try various things. I have a hunch I'm not the only one listening. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Egon -
I'll buy ammonia as being the "active" ingredient in the chicken manure, although I'm also ignorant about the benefits of ammonia. I know that PH is a big deal in our swimming pool, so it shouldn't surprise me that it works the same way in ponds. Hoping for a larger scale and more natural solution than we use in the pool. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

The area around our pond has been left natural -- no fertilizers.

Chuck -
Thanks for the web site. I went there and ordered a catalog. There's a spot on the form that asks where I heard about them, and I had my first chance to say "I heard about it on CountryByNet.com". [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I don't have a pond and get my water from Poland Spring, Maine, but a mountain creek fed pond will certainly silt up physically in addition to whatever is going on in the chemistry and biology of the water. Look at Mono Lake. (Wasn't it a tragedy that Galen Rowell recently died. Sorry, a tangent.) Seems inevitable that you will have to scrape it out or say bye bye to the pond. Maybe these things take geological ages, however, and you won't have to worry about it.

You sure don’t want to put chicken litter in to a pond. If you do the algae will grow like crazy. Chicken litter is high in nitrogen and it will make the algae very happy [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] and it will not leave.

Harv, I don't remember if you have electricity at your place. If you do, I would recommend going with an electrical powered compressor/aerator as opposed to a wind-powered aerator. Even in the best of circumstances, windmills only put out about a quarter of the air that a small compressor can, and that just happens to be about 25% of what you need [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] -

A 1/5 or 1/4 hp compressor and a single diffuser should be able to aerate up to a 1 acre pond with a maximum depth of at least 12 feet. This allows a lot of the organic material in the bottom of the pond to decay without that process using up all of the dissolved oxygen in the water.

As always, what to do depends on what you want. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

If I had money, I'd love any excuse to use a backhoe, but I gotta tell ya, the edge of the pond is the scariest place I can think of to use a tractor, whether there's water in the pond or not.

Now I will have to agree with you there. I have included a pic of me and my new E110B excavator cleaing out one of our ponds. As you will note that I was almost in there but didn't give up. LOL

Darin

YIKES, Darin!!! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Now ya gotta tell us the whole story!

Well it's not that long of a story so you shouldn't get too bored. Well first things first, I just bought the unit and upon delivery I had to unload the thing off a flat deck trailer. And not the one that you can just crawl off but did manage to get it unloaded. Well then I moved her to the spot where I wanted and then all of a sudden the engine quits and won't start again. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Long story short ran out of fuel after running 5 mins. [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Only have about 10 gal on hand in the 5 gal containers and put that in. Proceeded to go to pond and start digging and just didn't quite have the reach I wanted so I put the under carriage over the bank some and dug about 3 buckets full of heavy sticky muck when I felt something give....... I thought I would just dump the spoils and then adjust accordingly. Well I had the boom about behind me when she started to let loose (the bank that is) and being use to backhoe controls and not use to the normal excavator controls (Cat) I actually ended up pulling the stick in the bank instead of lifting the boom up to miss the bank so I ended up going head first. Throwing my feet against the front window glass so I wouldn't go through it head first and was tilting over but not too bad yet. Well then again I messed up because I couldn't tell if my sprocket or front idler was in front of me and didn't move my forward control in the right direction and rolled off more but was able to move the boom in front to catch me from going over. [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] When working on angles like this was the little 10 gals doesn't put a dent in the tank so the engine died again due to not being able to suck any fuel so I just figured I better get some pics and get my heart rate back to normal [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] The next day and 35 more gals of fuel I got the unit running (after cleaningn the suction strainer before the primer pump because I was sucking all the mess left from the bottom of the tank when it ran out of fuel the first time) [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] When the thing was running I was then able to push my stick out while going backwards. Thank goodness. I met alot of people in those two days and most of them said that to get a wrecker (big one) or another bigger excavator to get me out would have ran me major $$$$$. So I did feel kinda lucky that I got her out on her own power. Oh my sorry I guess it's not too short of a story. [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] see attachment

Darin

Looking at that picutre, it's hard to imagine how you got it out under its own power. I guess you found something firm enough to push against with the bucket down there, eh?

Now I'm waiting for the video. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

WOW,

What a story, Darin...congratulations on getting it out under it's own power.

Dave

Actually I wanted to video tape it but my red face was ruining the video [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] But then again after today's adventures I don't feel so bad........Used the excavator today to help get a tri-axles dump truck out of the ditch with full load but later had to get it out because we couldn't move it with a 550 dozer and excavator. Then after getting the thing out it almost went back in the ditch because the tires were full of mud and no weight in the dump for traction. Was able to run his newer JD550H dozer today which was waaaaay cool. Boy you steer this thing with just your joysticks...no pedal or levers with the new ones I guess. THis was all done by an "experienced" guy too,,,not like my rookie butt. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

It definately makes you feel better when you get the thing that you got in a bad situation out by itself. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Your picture proves that "CATs" don't like water! [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

You really know how to have a good time! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Bill,

Your picture reminds me of a horror movie I saw once. It had had to do with Texas and chainsaws.... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

They're both from Texas but I dunno...

Yeah, but he was obviously left-handed. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
http://www.countrybynet.com/attachme...eatherface.jpg

Our state wildlife conservation department has a free pond evaluation available. They will shock the pond and tell you what kind of fish you have and percentages. Then they will sample your water, and survey the pond, and tell you what to do to make it clearer and how to have better fishing, or whatever you want to do. Might check with your state.

<font color="blue">Might check with your state</font color>

Thanks, tugokc. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

It seems likely we would have something similar here in California (not sure where you are), but I just spent half an hour cruising through the websites of our state government agencies, and all I got was a headache. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Might have to make some phone calls and talk to real people -- or at least government people. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Harv
Try the USDA soil and conservation office. They sell fish for stocking ponds and lakes, trees for soil and animal conservation and offer various services. They could advise you on your pond or steer you to someone who can.

Thanks, MRB.

I'll check that out. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

My neighbor brought over his 'hoe to my pond this summer to clean up the edges. The problem with 'hoes is that they have to have somewhere to dump. Normally this is a dump truck, but in pond areas this is not always possible.

In my case, I had to move the dirt with my tractor. Harv's intuition is right on -- I tipped my tractor into my pond! Pond muck is very heavy and my bucket was very low. Still, even with the proper ballast and what I consider to be a conservative angle of approach, my tractor tipped over. The ground around the newly dumped dirt gets soft real quick, allowing the front wheels to sink under the heavy load.

This was an experience I do not wnat to repeat! [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

Buck

I had my dam (pond) cleaned out last week as it was pretty low. My dam is very small compared to Harvs but it still cost me 6 hrs excavator hire. He took out about 4feet of sludge from the bottom. Looks like it had very been cleaned out before.

The previous summer I had some work done around the dam but not in it. Even then it never settled for the entire year. Once it fills this summer I wonder if it will clear up.

Anyway, yes excavators are the only way to go I reckon but no, they can't move the crap very far away. So now I have bid "rice paddies" everywhere he dumped the stuff. It flowed like lava some 60 feet away.

What I now do with that I don't know. On TBN I posted a question as to what I can do with it and of my tractoe stuck in it.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm