Woodworking: for Love or Money?

Well I picked up a copy of American Woodworker at the Depot last night to read about table saws. After I read that Article, I read the rest of the magazine. As I was reading, I was thinking hmmm, I could do that. Folllowed by I want that tool [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] .

The wife & I want / need to furnish our house. This will happen after we are done with all the painting etc. I'm thinking I could build some/ all of it and save some money. Although I'd like to have more of both, seems that I have more free time than money. Our taste is more casual style which should be simpler construction.

Potential near term projects:
Dining room: Table, chairs, hutch, buffet
Living room: coffe table
Kitchen: Stools
Family room: TV stand, end tables
Bedroom: Dressers & bedside tables

Potential future projects:
Furnish kid's bedrooms (Don't have the kids yet)
Finish & furnish third floor playroom

Grand Finale:
Kitchen Cabinets

My grandfather built quite a bit of furniture. Some of which I have today. Unfortunately he is no longer around to help me. He was the quintessential yankee, saving every scrap of wood & using the ugly pieces where they wouldn't be seen.

So do you guys build furniture because it is cheaper, or because you can do a better job / get want you want? IE: Is it a labor of love or money? I know I will have to invest big bucks in tools.

I enjoy woodworking strictly as a hobby. It's a great outlet, kind of like tractoring, but more enjoyable than the tractor when it's raining/snowing out. I have built some furniture (see attached). Usually I take on a project because we have a specific size/style/design in mind and cannot find it commercially. I only invest my woodworking time in pieces that will become "heirlooms" at this point. Maybe when retired I'll have more time for everyday furniture but that's a long way off for me. I design and build with quality in mind so it takes me a while to get something finished. At the rate I work, it would take me years to get through the list you mentioned.

As a budding novice, I would recommend picking up a table saw but not a high dollar one. Maybe one of the benchtop models. Do your floor project then take on a simple end table or something with relatively simple joinery. You'll know during that project if it's "in your blood". If so, let the equipment build up begin. There is a lot of equipment you can get but it will be easier on your wallet to buy it as your demands dictate [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Here's the pic Curio

Rob,

Great job on the curio. Also, thanks for the common sense advice to start small. Sometimes my plans are too grand [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] .

Attached is an example of and end table I think I could build for less money.

The Ethan Allen price is $390 it measures 21" wide X 27 deep X 23 high. I'm guessing that the materials would be less than half that.

Anybody got a wag on how many hours are involved to put something like this together? I figure shop for wood on the weekend, then I should be able to finish it in a couple of weeks working an hour or two in the evenings.

Oops wrong picture

I am no expert on building furniture, but I would guess that unless you WANT to build the furniture, in the long run it is much cheaper to buy it than to make it...especially if you don't mind second-hand/almost antique furniture.

My brother-in-law makes furniture for a living, and he does a beautiful job, but to be honest, I have no idea how anyone can afford to buy the stuff he sells...I know he charges a fair price based on the amount of time he puts in, plus materials (he is not getting rich at it), but sometimes some of the pieces he makes end up costing 5-6-7-8-10 thousand dollars for a nice desk or a nice tall chest of drawers...absolutely beautiful stuff, made from the finest cherry, but he puts hundreds of hours in to each piece (and thus the expense). I can go to an antique shop and by stuff that is just as nice (for me) and get 4-5 pieces for the cost of one of his.

On the other hand, if building furniture is a enjoyable hobby...go for it!

In my case, I did it because it was my job [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] But I've been away from it about 8 years now, and am looking forward to easing back into in retirement.

Of all the things on your list, beware the chairs! For something that looks so simple, they can be a real headache. I've made several sets (at work), but always bought my own [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] .

EJB, I know exactly what you mean on the high priced, handmade furniture. I cannot see paying that kind of money but I guess people do buy Rolls Royces when a VW accomplishes the same task.

I agree with you also on shopping the antique market. That is another one of our passions and we intend to collect period furniture over our years.

In the end, we'll have an assortment of new, commercially made furniture for "everyday" stuff, some home built "heirlooms" and some antique originals. Hopefully the variety will add to the homey feeling we want to impart on our kids [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Building furniture is a " Labour of Love". Try it and see how you feel about it. Remember that the real quality stuff isn't produced on the first attempt. It takes awhile to gain the touch, learn how to finish etc.
I've built a few things but still consider myself in the pre novice stage.

Egon

I do it because I love it, but I also love the way the money I get for it helps pays the bills.

I've made about a half dozen pieces, and I'm really not saving any money if I place any value on my time. If your time is free, I guess you come out ahead. Until you consider your equipment costs, then you're in the hole again. BUT I end up something that people ooh and aah over (maybe they're just being polite?), and say things like "You MADE that?" And my wife really likes to furnish the house with things that you can't buy anyway. A certain size, a certain wood, maybe matching something we already have....

I'll spend several hundred dollars on wood, hardware, special router bits, etc for each peice of furniture. But I'll also spend several hundred hours on each peice. I'll try to attach a picture of vanity I just finished (the picture shows it about 80% done, but I don't have a newer one). It took about 300 hours. And as a weekend woodworker, I'm booked with projects through retirement. I worked nights and weekends on that vanity for 9 months. I sure enjoyed it, but not to save money.

I tell my wife "If you find want you want in a store, get it, cause I can't make it any cheaper".

I do it because I enjoy it. I've built about a third of the furniture we have, and have gotten almost everything else, except for upholstered pieces, used from second hand/antique shops and auctions.

I bought a few kits when I first started out and they really helped me get an understanding of joinery and how furniture should be built. They also enabled me to complete some good looking pieces in a reasonable amount of time without making a lot of firewood.

I have to second what a lot of others have said, unless your time has no value to you, you won't save any money especially compared to buying good quality pieces used. But it can be alot of fun, especially when the weather is cold

It's certainly a hobby for me. I've only built a few pieces since house remodeling (and now new construction) plus property maintainance has always taken preference. Probably in 2 to 3 years when the major house/shop/garage/barn projects are completed I can return to furniture building. Wouldn't bet on that timing right now since additional run-in sheds, fenced pastures, upland pond w/ food plots keep being added to the honey-do list. One curse of a tractor is that you can do lots more, then lots more projects are thought of and added to the list. More tractor time. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

<font color="blue"> picture of vanity I just finished </font color>

Very nice, Mike. Making raised panel doors follow curves will definitely add hours to a project [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] , but with a nice result when you are done.

Beatiful work Mike.

You guys a creating stuff that is way beyond what I am contemplating.

Our taste is much more casual / simple. Probably very little if any raised paneling and other "extra touch" details etc.

I brought the idea up with the wife last night. It made her cry [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Bad timing on my part. Appartently she had a bad day at work and didn't want to think about / discuss life ambitions. She apologized this morning and said it was great that I was so motivated. She said I should go ahead and make the end table. I told her it was an economy of scale kind of thing. By the time I equipped the shop (even with used tools) the end table will cost in the thousands of dollars, not $200.

Off to the library for more research material.

I haven't built a doggone thing yet, but my workshop has already cost me over $10 k, with the building, equipment and materials. Someday, I'll have the time to actually finsihing installing and setting up the cyclone dust collector. My first plans are all the cabinets and carts I need just for the equipment, (I've designed a whole work station plan) but I'll probably be too old to safely use the equipment by the time I finsih that.
So, by the time I build anything worth bringing into the house and using (or displaying) ... we'll be talking a piece costing (not worth) $20 or $25 grand.
In the meantime, since my wife doesn't get upset when I buy more toys for my shop ... I don't get upset when she wants to go furniture shopping.
There's no way, no matter how good I get, that I will ever compete with the factories. Just like you can't build a car cheaper than Ford, you can't build a good dining room table cheaper than Broyhill. It's called economies of scale.
So .... it's love - not money!
In the meantime, I attend (almost) every meeting of the local woodworkers club and ooh and aah over their projects. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

<font color="blue">Probably very little if any raised paneling </font color>

Regular (flat, not curved) raised panelling is easy, once you've acquired the means to raise the panels (router or shaper, or even with a table saw), and is one of the simplest ways to dress up any millwork project, such as doors, cabinets, wainscote panelling, mantels, etc.

<font color="blue"> Well I picked up a copy of American Woodworker at the Depot last night </font color>

The "bible" is Feirer's "Cabinetmaking and Millwork". It is a trade-school coursebook. I believe it is out of print, but you could find copies at your library or on eBay, or perhaps at Amazon.com's out-of-print books search. Written in the 50's (I think, or perhaps the 40's or 60's), most of the project pictures will appear quaint and quite out-of-date, but the techniques and methods are all there.

Well, you got plenty answers already. I am also a vivid woodworker, like somebody said it is a fine hobby for rainy days when the tractor is too wet. I had a job on a side which was fun and paid a little, so I bought more WW tools than I needed. I found out that making a nice furniture is harder than it looks. You need good tools, not necessarily many of them, and good wood to make nice stuff.

Anyways, I like it and I am sticking with it.

Haz-

Another possibility would be repair/refinishing of used pieces- there's often a lot of hidden value in pieces that can be picked up reasonably. I am sitting at a 36" X 60" eight-leg oak veneer desk that was used in a local water utility plumbing shop and had formica glued to it's top. A friend got the top off with chisels, and sold it to me for $60 when he lost interest. I used a $40 porter cable random orbital sander and a good supply of discs to clean up this stinky, dingy behemoth, and gave it 3 coats of Minwax satin poly - water based for quick cleanup. The top of this thing glows with a beautiful tiger stripe flame when the light hits it. The dings and dents only add character, and I've got a couple days and the cost of the sanding discs in it, besides $60.00.

Our real pride and joy was a painted curved-front bureau that we used as kids for socks n' undies - we grew up with it, with color-coded yellow, light green, and orange paint on alternating drawers (3 kids), then it was stored for years. My Dad (a cabinetmaker) suggested my wife and I strip and refinish it together. He knew it was mahogany veneer underneath - what a happy discovery for us, when the stripper revealed the figure and color of the wood.

Another thing we have recently finished (Last Sept 9-11, while listening to the attack on the radio) is a new table and six chairs from one of those unfinished furniture places (40" x 66" plus two 15" leaves). Guess what we put on for finish? We like the natural color of wood.

Someday, when I have the space to leave tools and work laid out in a shop, I'm going to start with fresh stock and do some pieces like some of these guys have shown you here. For now, though, it is quicker, cheaper, and just as satisfying to add pieces to the house we have refinished or rebuilt. We even found a stripper to do the dirty work for us (Uh, furniture stripper [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] ), so we start with clean pieces that only need to be touched up at the joints and lightly sanded (dip stripping raises some grain and you need to knock the "hairs" off). Refinishing and repairing furniture has been very satisfactory. It has taught me things, and allowed me to test myself to see if I really like doing this work before I invested big bucks in tools. Once you familiarize yourself with construction methods, and can spot good wood, you will have a lot of fun at yard sales, and maybe even the town dump!

As I said, Dad's a cabinetmaker, and we have access to his expertise and shop - but he does the same thing for his house! You should see the cherry drop leaf table he has, that spent a long time painted black and covered with junk in the electrical shop of a local college. It's everywhere, and the hunt is part of the fun. As I said above, you can get stuff for your house quicker and cheaper, and it's far superior to the work I could do initially. Plus you learn construction, and start to have a greater sense of what you might need for your shop. I'm sold on looking for used stuff, where we can find it.

<font color="blue"> Plus you learn construction, and start to have a greater sense of what you might need for your shop. </font color>

This is a very good suggestion.

Our shop also did furniture repair, and you can learn an awful lot by fooling with a well-made piece.

I learned almost entirely how to build chairs from scratch, by fixing broken ones.

A good example is finding an old rocking chair, with worn out or broken rockers (runners). Just saw out some new rockers and install, and you have a good working chair.

<font color="blue">The "bible" is Feirer's "Cabinetmaking and Millwork"
</font color>
The local library consortium has a couple copies available. I'll be picking it up tonight. There are 1967 &amp; 1982 versions.

I think the wife is getting a little bit interested in the endeavor. She was flipping thru one of the magazines I picked up and really liked their rolling mitre saw stand w/ fold down wings. Norm's mother of all mitre saw stand/cabinet show was on this weekend, but I forgot to set the VCR timer (we were out of town) [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

I'll have to look into the refurb / refinish route as well.

Thanks for all the feedback. It is good to hear other's prospective.

I know that if I put a $$ value on my free time that I can't compete with a furniture manufacturer. However, If I spend that time building furniture instead of my other money sucking hobbies (skiing, sailing &amp; kayaking &amp; camping) I'm probably ahead. It all depends on how creative you want to do the accounting.

<font color="blue">Norm's mother of all mitre saw stand/cabinet show was on this weekend, but I forgot to set the VCR timer (we were out of town) </font color>

Just checked the Yankee Workshop web page. I missed the workbench show that I wanted to catch. The mitre stand is on next weekend. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Hazmat, I agree pretty much with what everyone said so far. If it is purely economics, it might not be a good investment of your time or money. I have made up to about $0.05/hour DIY but can get more enjoyment, or better stuff for my purpose. If you like DIY, it is easy to justify. Can't recall the name of the book or whatever but there was a good one on 2x4 furniture. Some pretty neat stuff that didn't require a lot of expensive materials, highly developed skills, or a "New Yankee Workshop" full of tools or Norm as a consultant.

A minority report: Be darned careful with advice to buy cheap tools. Better to have fewer tools that are of decent quality that a shop full of stuff that is imprecise or floppy and weak, or won't give reliable reproducible results. Miracle 10 in one or a hundred in one tools, even the high dollar quallity ones are a pain in the rear and require an inordinate amount of time to be invested in playing with the transformer toy and not wood working. If you were say, building 10 wooden horses for kids to ride, you would do all you could then transforn the tool, do the next set of operations, then xform the tool etc. If you are building just one, it becomes much less attractive. If you just walk in the shop and need to do something, you can bet Murphy's britches the transformer toy all in one tool will be set up as the wrong thing. They can be nice, if you have the patience and the time or if you find a good price on used ones and buy 3 or 4. I carry a Leatherman tool on my belt over 90% of the time. It is not the best knife, screwdriver, file, pliers or anything else except it is in my hand and transformed to the right tool in just a few seconds. Multi purpose wood working tools, in theory, follow that concept but in practice are high overhead and more so if you are a spur of the moment person and don't plan everything in great detail, figuring the critical path and so forth.

Let us know what you do.

Pat

I have built furniture for our home and know one thing for sure. I work real cheap. I was going to make a shaker bedroom set from plans. After I priced the good maple stock and tried to guesstimate the time for construction, I priced the pieces at Crawford furniture in Jamestown, NY. I would be working for about a dollar an hour.

You can buy the Crawford furniture for 40% off at the factory. That is first quality not damaged or left over pieces. Those you can buy even cheaper. It is two hours from our home so we call and order then grab a truck and go pick it up a few days later.

Bottom line for me is if I have the time and I want a special piece then I will build it.