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Burn Piles
Some still, damp day this fall we're going to have to burn. Our pile consists mostly of brush, uprooted cactus and scrap lumber. Now we've never done this and are nervous about it, not to mention totally ignorant of proper procedures. Can ya'll give us any pointers?
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Re: Burn Piles
Mine get high - I wait til a rainy day in the winter - pour a little diesel on it to start it - then constantly circle the pile with the tractor and/or shovel and monitor it all the way down. They are usually at least a year old so it burns quick. They are usually made up of mostly cedar too - and trash elm. Burning in the rain takes care of any hot ash that wants to float off.
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Start with small piles. 4'x4'x4' is the max recommended size in our fire district.
Clear around the pile, down to dirt. It's hard for a fire to escape if there are no flammables right next to it
Keep it in the open; don't put it under or near trees.
<font color="red"> Don't use gas to ignite it! Don't even think about it! </font color> Start it with paper, or maybe use a little charcoal lighter fluid. Just do't use gasoline, or "white" campstove type fuel; it is too volatile, and will flash on you.
Keep a shovel and rake right there in case you need to mop up around the burn pile.
If you have it, have a water supply right there with you too.
Get a permit from your local Fire Dept. Manty area's require permits to burn. And, like at our station, they have a handy flier that details all this.
Call your burn information number to see if it is a permissive burn day. They may not allow you to burn because of air quality issues, or hazardous fire issues.
Be careful burning construction trash, lumber, ect. In a lot of area's, you can only burn yard debris and rubbish; ie tree trimmings, brush, pine needles ect.
Have a phone nearby, just in case your burn pile escapes. You are liable for all damages if you burn pile escapes and damges a neighbors property.
Above all else, be careful!
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Some good advice so far. Let me emphasize the "don't use gasoline to start it" part. Gasoline doesn't burn, it explodes! When I was a kid growing up on the farm, I used gasoline - once. I learned my lesson quick!
Don't burn on a windy day!
I use either kerosene or diesel fuel if the brush is still kind of green. It also helps to add some engine oil (I save my old oil when I change my oil in the vehicles and tractor for just this purpose). If it's dry though, you won't need anything but some newspaper.
I don't bother with permits, not sure if they're needed. That's up to you.
I fill my pump sprayers (I have one for herbicides and one for pesticides) with water and keep them handy. I also have a couple pails of water handy. Sometimes I water the area down around it before lighting it.
In my opinion, the biggest danger is sparks and leaves or other stuff that gets in the air. Don't put cardboard boxes and books on top, that stuff will float off while under fire. Did I say "don't burn on a windy day!"
Warning: Once a fair sized brush pile (6'x6'x6')gets going, you won't be able to get within 15' of it for a while. So, make sure the area around it is cleared before you light it.
I try to get a fairly early start so I won't be up all night tending it. Those embers can last all night OK once they're raked up into a pile with a good 3' or so band of bare ground around them.
Don't for get the hot dogs and marshmallows!
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Hey, good first post, Robert! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Glad you showed up over here 'cuz I will probably do my own burn for the first time as soon as things moisten up a little. I'm guessing your advice applys pretty close, since you're only a couple of hills away from my property.
We've been interviewing caretakers for the property lately, and one fella saw my brush pile and said he could burn it right where it is -- next to and overgrown by large oaks and pines. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] He flunked the interview. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I plan on tractorin' a good-sized pit in a nearby clearing and leave the spoils piled up around the edge for extra containment. Thanks for mentioning the 4'x4'x4' dimension. I'll double check for our area, but that sounds like a good starting point. I'd rather take it slow than burn down the whole neighborhood. And maybe yours. [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
Any estimates on how many marshmallows/weenies per cubic yard of brush? [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
Good thread, Bob. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Harv, since you are so close, I know you will need a permit. You will also need to find out the "burn number" in your area.
Also, I would forgo the marshmallows and weenies. From what you have siad in the past, you are not sure what the content of some of your brush piles are. I do not believe you nor the kids would enjoy raosting edibles over burning poison oak [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
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Mosey,
the permit probably is not a big deal till I show up on the Engine and ask about it [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Honestly though, you would be sited and fined in our district, if we had to respond to your burn pile. Other districts and states vary thier regs.
I was on a 1000 acre fire a week ago. Ashes were falling over 5 miles away.
In our district, you can not put books or boxes on the burn pile. It is for yard trimmings only. Again, it varies by district, state, ect.
You're right, those ashes and embers will stay hot for a LONG time.
Out here, we stay away from roasting weenies, since you might have poison oak in the pile, even if inadvertantly. That would make a really yucky marshmallow [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
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<font color="blue">I do not believe you nor the kids would enjoy raosting edibles over burning poison oak </font color>
Yikes! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
I completely forgot about the ol' poison oak! Although it was never intentional, it's a pretty safe bet that there is at least some of that nasty stuff in there.
Guess I need a second pit to burn some charcoal briquettes in. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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I've never used a burn pile, but my neighbor across the street did. On a breezy day. He caught his next door neighbor's (they live diagonally from us) lawn on fire. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] They had to call in the local volunteer fire department. Fortunately, the fire didn't get out of hand, and the neighbor really didn't care all that much about their lawn.
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Used oil is considered a hazardous substance as it contains heavy metals. Don't think I'd toast any marshmallows over it.
Another way is to burn the material on a nightly basis in an approved device and spend time gossiping with the neighbours while doing it.
Egon
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<font color="blue">Start with small piles. 4'x4'x4' is the max recommended size in our fire district.
</font color>
I should have asked for advice before we torched some of our burn piles! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] The attachment shows me high-tailing it away from the blaze, the scorched earth result, and how nature is healing the scars.
We thought we were ok: no wind, not too dry, etc. BUT, no water available, too large a burn pile (about 20'x20'x10') and drifting firebrands caused us a lot of anxiety, 1st degree burns and some serious running around time. [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] And this is only one (albeit the largest) of the 6 piles we started burning that morning.
I think our next door neighbor was somewhat concerned about our sanity (and his trees). The next time we had a good rain, he burned the rest of our brush for us! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
I think God must look out for fools and children, as we feel like we dodged a bullet that day.
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We've had large piles and small piles. I prefer the smaller piles. Much easier to contain and manage.
We start with a small pile and build it up as we go along. I only takes about 15 minutes starting with a small pile of dry wood. Once the fire is good and hot, we start piling the stuff on. Our burn pile never gets any bigger than 6-10 feet in diameter and never taller than 3-4 feet.
Once the embers are really hot, all you need to do is to keep on throwing stuff onto the fire and watch it disappear. We will burn a pile of brush, wood debris, and dead limbs 10X20X6 feet in four to six hours. While the stuff is burning, we continue to find more and add it to the pile.
Of course, we never burn when its windy or dry. We typically burn between Oct and April here in Washington County, Md. During the rest of the year, we just pile it up and wait for the cooler, wetter months to come to do the job. And yes, the local fire department likes to know if you're going to burn. They hate surprises!!!! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Terry
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Don't use gas to start it??? Heck, the last time we lit off one here, my wife decided to start it about 5:30 am, sorry, but that's too early for me. Anyway, she tossed in a cup or two of "bug juice" as we called it in camp many years ago. Seems like she forgot the matches, back up to the house. (this pile was about 12' in diameter & 8' tall..) she gets back, throws in a match, and my neighbor, just settling down on the porch with the 1st cup of joe swears the pile lifted a foot off the ground! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Needless to say, she did get me up (no the blast didn't do it) to nurse it from there.
On another note, we have adopted "Guy Fawkes Night" as our "Official" bonfire time. Last year we burned an Osama!
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I've got 2 huge piles of brush, logs, etc. that are about 30x30x10. One pile is 1+ years old and the other is from this summer. I was going to just light the first one this fall/winter, but after reading the advice in here, I am going to create a new smaller pile on my newly graded area that I will be building my pole barn next spring. This area is 70x50, and will serve as a great firebreak.
I will do as you do Terry, and just keep adding to the smaller pile as the fire burns -- sounds like a very sensible way to keep things under control.
I will be getting a burning permit (had one last year but never burned) and calling the local fire dept. before starting the fire.
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Guys,
I use a burn barrel. Just an old metal 55 gal drum that I picked up for ~ $5. Works great since it contains all the fire and prevents spread. Only good for very small fires but you can burn one fairly often since its easy and safe.
However, I must confess that I use gas to start it. I know I am about to get a lecture..... You need to be very carefull with this. The system I have is to tie a paper towel around a 10' section of metal furring channel. A few drops of gas on the top layer of material in the burn barrel and light it from 10' feet away with the metal channel and you have a real efficient system.
The key statement is "a few drops"!
Fred
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Forgot to mention that the wood ashes contain phosphate which is good fertilizer.
Egon
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Of course it goes without saying that a burn barrel can also cause problems if not done properly.
A few years ago my father-in-law had a fire going in his burn barrel at his home in rural Louisiana. Someone had put some sticks in the barrel and one of them burned in two and fell out on the ground. It was late in the year and the grass was dry and the fire spread from the area near the barrel to his two acre pasture in the back, which had not been mowed lately and was full of dead grass and weeds. To make a long story short the volunteer fire department was called but by the time they arrived half the field had caught fire and swept to the area where he stored a couple of drums of diesel fuel. The drums caught fire and my mother-in-law described what happened next as comparing the fire to an oil well fire with flames shooting up in the air and billowing clouds of smoke enveloping the entire area. A neighboring rice field caught fire as well. The VFD was able to put the fire out before any structures were damaged or destroyed but my father-in-law suffered lung damage from smoke inhalation. His lungs were already in bad shape from years of inhaling welding smoke and decades of tobacco use. The smoke inhalation worsened the already existing lung damage and he died a couple of years later when his lungs just finally gave out. He would probably have died of lung disease anyway but one careless moment allowed a fire to get out of hand and possibly accelerat his demise.
I agree with Phred that a burn barrel is a good way to burn small amounts of limbs and such but I just want to point out that because you burn in a barrel does not mean that you should be any less cautious than if you are burning a pile of brush.
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<font color="red"> Wow, a very timely post! I just torched one today!</font color>
My burn piles are generally the semi-dried crowns of trees dropped by the wind or myself for firewood, branches trimmed off or saplings thinned out. I generally throw a few decent hunks of firewood on top to generate some serious embers (they come in handy later in the burn). I usually let the pile sit and dry for several weeks. When rain is forecast, I cover the whole thing with an old tarp. When the rain is past, I uncover the pile, splash kerosene around the base, and light it. No need to splash kero on top, as the heat rises.
One trick I use to get the thing good and hot if it has trouble getting going is to use my leaf blower as a very efficient bellows. Works like a charm! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Very little danger of the fire spreading if I light it after a rain, but just in case my pile is right down from the pond, so I can run a siphon if need be. As the center of the pile is reduced to ash, I circle with either a shovel or the Kubota (depending on the size of the pile) to push the unburned edges onto the bed of embers in the middle. Oh, and I always wear long sleeves and a ballcap. When the heat is too intense I look down and the brim protects my face. And gloves are a must. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Today's burn pile started as the size of a full sized van, and ended with fine ash that would not quite fill a 30 gallon garbage can. I spread the ash under the apple trees while it's still hot; kills the fungus that leads to apple scab. Again, hose is handy for flare ups.
Pete
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Dang, Pete! You gonna be near California any time soon? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
I might just print out your description of that burn. Nothing like step-by-step instructions from someone who just did it.
Sounds like there's an advantage to living right there where you burn. Timing the weather might be a little more problematic for us weekend (or less) warriors. Think I'll go ahead and set up the initial pile and cover it as you describe. Don't know exactly when the first rains will come, but it can't hurt to be ready.
This is one of those tasks I hate to turn over to our yet-to-be hired caretaker. There's just too much at stake. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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This is not meant to stir up the embers, so-to-speak, but why do you folks burn? I have a few brush piles that just sit there. I add to them every so often and they just keep rotting down. If I happend to be driving by I'll mash them down with the FEL just to teach them a lesson! Great fun. Every once in a while I'll move them over and harvest the good soil that has built up under them. They also provide good habitat for wildlife, if you like skunks [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
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<font color="blue">why do you folks burn?</font color>
I guess brush piles come in different sizes. As long as I was just picking up fallen debris, my pile was controllable in the manner you describe. But now that I've gotten serious about clearing fire trails and removing the growth that's gotten too close to the house, my brush pile is so big that it is more of a fire hazard than the areas I was clearing. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
Probably also depends on what kinda stuff you're putting on the pile. If I'm just clearing brush, the pile stays reasonable. Now that I'm cuttin' down trees here and there, it's just piling up too fast. One small oak tree makes for a powerful heap o' limbs and leaves, not counting the good firewood that comes with it.
Personally, I'd rather run it all through a chipper, but so far it doesn't look like I'll be able to arrange that due to finances and schedules 'n' stuff. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Would it be possible, and prudent, to run a rotary cutter over the pile or are the limbs and stuff too big?
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<font color="blue">Would it be possible, and prudent, to run a rotary cutter over the pile</font color>
Funny you should ask. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I had the same idea and even mentioned it over on TBN recently. I think it was RobertN who said he had tried it himself, and although it shreds the brush, it throws it all over the place and just generally makes a mess.
Had to find out for myself, though, didn't I? [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] To control the mess, I decided to dig a shallow trough barely wider than the rotary cutter and do all my shredding in the trough.
I had planned on running a pictoral report over on TBN, but never got around to it. Since this is more about brush piles than it is about tractors, and since you came right out and asked the question, Mike, I'll do it here.
The attached pictures show the preparation of the trough itself.
(Continued on next message)
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The pictures attached here are kind of a before-and-after of several runs with the rotary cutter.
I found that I could only do a little bit at a time 'cuz it gets hard to get the cutter on top of the pile, plus the amount of work the cutter is doing at one time gets to be considerable (not to mention noisy [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] ) I wore my chainsaw helmet with ear protection the whole time.
The bottom picture shows what was left after running over about a half dozen small piles as shown in the top picture. Have to admit I was amazed at how little was left each time. Just shows to go ya that a lot of our brush is mostly air.
Note -- not clearly shown in that last picture is the larger stuff I retrieved from the trough when the cutter was done. It generally wound up laying too flat in the dirt for the cutter to get ahold of it, and was typically 2 inches or more in diameter. Not bad for small firewood, actually.
My final opinion? It's a lot o' work (hand-filling the trough, jumping on and off the tractor, etc.), hard on the ol' rotary cutter, and unfortunately kinda slow going. After an entire afternoon of this process, I had made a noticeable dent in the original brush pile, but that was about all. Would probably take me a week to finish it (or in my case, a couple of months of visits).
Since this episode, I have cleared more trees and limbs and the pile is considerably bigger than when I took these pictures. Unless I can get access to a man-sized chipper soon, my next attempt will be a burn. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Interesting pictures. I was thinking you could just back up into the pile, i.e., don't use the trench and the steps needed to move the brush to it. But you're right, it's a slow and very noisy process and probably kind of rough on the cutter.
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Thanks for the pictorial reply!
We rarely have any trees left over as my in-laws burn wood for heat. They take all burnable wood and I am left with only the branches and stuff under 2 inches or so. Also, we don't have much of a fire hazard here, although we are in a drought right now. I'm more worried about my forest burning down if I would attempt to burn. When I was a kid my father set the yard on fire while burning leaves. The fire department came at the last minute and probably saved the house. My mother complained because the fire pull box(remember those) was all the way at the end of the block. The next week the fire chief was there as a crew installed a pull box on a telephone pole at the end of our driveway. I'm told the fire chief made some comment about idiots and leaf fires as he drove away. My mother was mortified in front of the neighbors [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
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Wait till wet/damp weather comes...put a couple tire casings in the brush,go back out AFTER DARK and take about 5 gallons of diesel fuel ,spread on brush pile generously,light that sucker .....stand back and enjoy [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] .Those old tires sure make some interesting sounds when they are hot and burning well. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Everyone enjoys a good fire as long as its safe to have one.
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<font color="blue">I was thinking you could just back up into the pile</font color>
Sounds better than I think the reality would be. Since your cutter will get there before the tires, it would probably just push into the pile without doing as much cutting as you would want. And if that wasn't a problem, you'd find out just how much brush your cutter could digest at once before it choked. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
I was also getting concerned about tire punctures as I drove over the small piles in the trough. Seems like it would be just a matter of time before a pointy stick came up at just the right angle and did me in. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
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Just wanted to say "hi". I've burned several piles and currently have three piles waiting for later in the fall when there is snow cover. My first burns were from cleanup of the lot and covered 30'x30'x 10'. The second was from clearing a space to build my house - about a 50' radius and 10' high. I just made sure I always had full water buckets (6-8 five gallon buckets) all around the pile and access to quick resupply from the stream. Re: burn barrels - I also use a 55 gallon drum. They tend to keep embers hot a long time. Several times, I have had a good fire going on Sunday and let it go, then come back the next SATURDAY, stir up the ashes, add some paper and it'll flare right up. Ashes are still pretty warm so getting the fire going is pretty easy. I just aways make sure to put the lid on when I'm not there.
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robertn - That's a good point about poison oak. We don't have any around here, but do have poison ivy. I don't burn the poison ivy though, since that would mean I had to put it on the pile, and that would mean I had to pick it up - which I don't do! I spray it with Roundup.
egon - I agree that you have to be careful about fumes. But, I seriously doubt that 1 or 2 gallons of used oil contains enough metal to bother anyone. Plus, that's the first thing to burn and it's been well over an hour before I can get close enough to roast hot dogs, so by then all that's left is the embers from the larger chunks of wood. "wood ashes contain phosphate which is good fertilizer" - The people that used to live at my place had a couple burn piles that I felt were too close to the house, so I cleaned them up some and planted a tree in the middle of each. They are the fastest growing trees I've ever seen! I've always felt it had something to do with the ashes, but didn't know what was in the ashes to make the trees grow so good.
While we're on the subject of fumes, everyone needs to be aware that <font color="red">it's dangerous to burn old railroad ties and other treated lumber. They will emit poisonous fumes!</font color>
Boondox - "When rain is forecast, I cover the whole thing with an old tarp. When the rain is past, I uncover the pile" I've thought about trying that myself, but never did. But, around here the weather forecasters don't have clue when it is and isn't going to rain, so I'd just have to guess at it! Sure sounds like a safe way to burn though.
For those of you who burn in barrels: What do you do with the barrel once it gets full of ashes? The people who used to live at my place burned in barrels. Once it got full, they got another one and set it next to the old one. When they moved, the barrels stayed. There were several of them and I hauled them to the county dump. A couple were rusted out on the bottom, so I had to shovel the stuff into a trailer. There's still glass in that area, I doubt I'll ever get it all cleaned up.
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Just like Mosey said, it will stay hot for a long time, and it is difficult to put it out even with water. Last year at our weekend place in the woods, I burned a pile of trees that we had cleared with a dozer. About 35' x 10' x 6' high. It had several 10"-12" oaks about 25 or 30 ft. long. I started it about 9 a.m. and let it burn all day. At about 7 p.m., we were ready to go; the only thing left were three good sized tree trunks about 20 ft. long. As a safety precaution, we soaked the pile real good with water for about 45 minutes, including the trees that were left. They were still apparently burning from the inside. We thought we had the fire completely out. Next week, the trees were gone. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Fortunately, there was nothing left around it to ignite, and we were having some rain during the week.
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I like to rent the big commercial chippers. Here it runs $20/hr. You cna chip a LOT of stuff with them. The fire danger is lower, and you get lots of good chips for the garden ect.
I have run the rotary over small piles. It busts the stuff up, but not small enough. And, it really scatters it. And, as Harv has already mentioned, it is not easy on the mower.
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When we cleared the property for building, we had two brush piles about 30 x 50. Waited till fall and the first snow and then torched them by adding fuel oil. Being mostly white pines they burned intensely for the first half hour. There were flames over 50' up. My cousin who lives in town (about 5 miles away) could see the flames from his place. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] It melted snow and burned grass back about five feet around the perimeter. The trunks and larger branches required further burning. Made a great stockpile for bonfires which we have often in the fall. We make an event out of it, invite people over, roast hot dogs, drink beer [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] and when were lucky, watch the northern lights.
As long as you plan when your going to burn and keep safety in mind you shouldn't have to much trouble. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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<font color="red"> For those of you who burn in barrels: What do you do with the barrel once it gets full of ashes? The people who used to live at my place burned in barrels. </font color>
Dump it on the garden.
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On the barrel idea, I found if I opened the barrel on both ends and put it over a stump and add some limbs or scrap wood it would burn the stump out pronto but it would only fit over small stumps. I visited a local metal culvert manufacturer and happened upon a 4' diameter culvert about 5' in length for free and has quickly become my most valuable "tool" on the farm. Stump needs to age for about a year for maximum effectiveness so I cut the tree, harvest the stovewood, make a brushpile out of the tops, and the next year slap my barrel over the stump and burn the tops in it. Cooked at 950 degrees for 3 hours and your stump is done!
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Here's another twist on this thread. I just had an old, dilapidated bank barn torn down. The person who did the work took the wood that he thought he could use (part of the deal for tearing it down) and left the rest in a pile. I will go through it to salvage anything I think I can use, but then will want to burn the rest. So this is not brush, but rather 100 year-old white oak. I have a feeling it will burn quite rapidly! The pile is currently in the space that the barn used to be, surrounded on two sides by a crumbling foundation (cement and rock). The pile is about 30 feet wide X 10 feet deep X 20 feet tall.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Frank
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spread the ashes around your roses, garden, around the pasture.
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Watch out after the burn; there's probably lots of nail that will be directly attracted to your tractors tires. If you try to do cleanup afterwards, watch those tires close.
Check your area's regulations on burning. Out here in California, it is illegal to burn construction debris. Your pile would be extremely over sized, and the contents you are burning would get you cited.
Interestingly, most of the burn piles noted in this thread would be illegal here, mostly for being way over sized. But, reg's differ state to state. That's why it's a good idea to check your local reg's.