never gardened before...where to start????

<font color="red">We just moved to N. Idaho and would like to start a garden...the soil is sand though. Is it still possible?? and how much for a family of 6? </font color>

I will be following your thread. We are starting building our home in NoID and will be moving there in July. Where are you in ID? We are near Priest River. We like to set up a garden as well as plant fruit trees. We are looking for advice.

We've gardened in sand, you just have to build up the soil with lots of organics. (compost, manure, imported topsoil, sawdust, etc.) It'll probably take a few years before you get it right, but you should have some limited success right from the start, you'll just have to remember to fertilize and water, water, water.

Steve

Check out what the neighbours are planting. Find out when the season starts and ends from locals.
Don't expect too much from the first year garden. Pick a location that is sheltered but receives full sun; exspecially morning sun if that is posible. Get the area tilled and import as much manure, compost excetra as possible to build up the soil. When adding extras to the soil concentrate on small areas at a time. This will make for one good area to start and then just keep adding by building up additional small areas. Each area will take at least a year to properly break down and mature.

Above all check the local gardens, pick the best ones and go ask questions as these will be knowledgeable people and could advise on where and how to locally obtain soil additives.

Water and fertilizer in proper quanities are also a benefit.

Also find out if the garden area will require fencing protection from animals.

Egon [ old man with brown thumb ]

Lots of good info here, but I have to put in anouther vote for compost. Cant beat it. It brings so much to the plate when you garden. I also have to say not to expect to much that first year. Give it time, it will come. BTW this will be my first year with veggys. The first time I have the room I cant wait. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

If the soil is truly just sand, its going to new a lot of improvements, and that will take a few seasons...right off the bat you are going to load up the plot with some well-rotted compost and maybe even truck in a load of better soil so that something will have a chance to make it...you need to have some early sucesses in order to keep you motivated.

Luckily compost is easy to make and doesn't take too long.

My suggestion would be to

1) pick a good location that gets plenty of sun and some protection from the wind (if thats an issue for you, it is for me). Also, you want it convenient to a water source.

2). Prepare a bigger plot than you think you will need...since you have bad soil, and it will take a few years to get it up to speed, might as well get more area under improvement.

3) even though you have prepped a big plot, you might want to consider only using part of it and gradually increasing the amount and variety of things you are planting...meanwhile improving the entire plot each year. Its easy to try too many things and quickly get overwhelmed with weeding and other chores...better to start small and then branch out. Plant some sort of cover crop in the part of the garden you are not using that can be turned in at the end of the season.

4) Pick things that grow easy...I find that lettuce, totatoes and especially squash are very easy to grow....some beans are also easy. I have had a harder time with beets, corn, eggplants and broccoli the first few years, but now as my skills improved, so has my success rate. (Still have yet to get any corn; must be my soil).

5) I like to mulch my soil to keep down the weeding chores. I have had good luck with fresh lawn clippings, but there are lots of things you can also use. Don't use lawn clippings if you use chemicals on your lawn(I don't)

5) keep the garden watered and weeded and enjoy...also keep notes about what worked and what didn't...its easyt to think you'll be able to remember everything next year, but at least for me, the details get fuzzy by the time the next spring rolls around.

Have trees? In the fall dump those leaves in the garden, or start a pile of compost with those leaves.

[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] <font color="red"> </font color> We are in Blanchard so about 20 miles south of Priest river...my kids will go to Jr Hi there in the fall. THANK YOU SO MUCH for the wonderful tips. We have a horse so the fertilizer won't be a problem although hubby is afraid of weeds...I told him the garden is my space so it shouldn't matter [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] also how do I go about composting? and I guess I better meet some locals so I know when to start from what I can tell we are zone 5 but on the edge or zone 6
anyway thank you again [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The basic rules for composting are pretty simple; take bilogical matter and let it rot. To do it well can be a bit trickier, but doesn't have to be really hard. Basically if you aren't in too much of a rush and don't overload on green matter (which causes rot - a Bad Thing) you just dump stuff in a pile and let it sit. Even logs will compost eventually, although that might take a lot longer in the desert than you want to spend [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] .

Here is a web page that describes several methods of doing it. I just dump my composting stuff in a pile and let it sit for a year or so. I keep meaning to build a two or three bin system (and will be doing so pretty soon). I think that is probably the best trade of between time and energy. My plan is to make the bins large enough that I can get my tractors FEL bucket in to do the "hard work". Otherwise you're looking at some serious shoveling.

Your husband is right about the weeds. Horse manure often contains weed seeds. But I think that the benefit you'll gain will offset the trouble, especially if you compost the manure for a while. Once it composts, it heats up (naturally) and will kill the weed seeds. You just have to make sure you're using a method that will allow that to happen (I'm not sure what would be best - I just know that it can be done).

Hope that helps - try a web search on "composting" and you'll get a ton of sites, some good, some...well, not so good. I am actually going to go to a seminar hosted by my local Agricultural Extension office on composting later this month. It is free and they even provide documentation and a bin - all you have to do is sign up.

But you're on the right track. Soil preparation is the key. I can't remember who mentioned it, but it probably would be a good idea to have some good topsoil brought in so that you can at least have a patch of good growth - and see the difference that soil can make!

...Chris

I'm enrolled in the Master Gardener program at my local cow college. We spent quite a lot of time on the subject of composting, and I picked up several tips to improve my operation. Also, I have a Cooperative Extension agent who is the Statewide Rep for commercial and farm composting issues coming down to look over my operation and suggest 'recipes' for proportions of various ingredients to speed up composting and improve the final product.

If you like, I can discuss the subject at some length, either here or via email.

Bottom line, there are three keys to good composting: Proper ratios of ingredients, timely aeration, and temperature control. Killing weed seeds (and various pathogens) requires an internal pile temp of 145 to 160 degrees for a period of about 48 hours.

I'll check back and see if anyone is interested in further discussion on the subject.

I have a question. If you have access to water the compost pile would covering the pile with clear plastic help heat up the pile?

The heat we're interested in from a composting point of view is the heat of decomposition.

Your idea of covering the compost heap would probably be a good one if your goal is to continue composting in colder weather. I'd think the benefit would consist more of conserving the heat of decomposition than from any 'external' solar heating. Retention of moisture would also be a benefit.

I can see a couple of possible downsides to covering the pile. You would want to be careful not to get the pile TOO hot and kill the microorganisms that are doing the composting. 160 is the max temperature, above that, things start dying. Secondly, I'd be a little concerned about a sufficient supply of oxygen. If the pile goes anerobic, you get a smelly, slimy mess.

Still, it's an interesting concept, and one I'll pick a few brains about at my next class, or when the "Pro's From Dover" come down to have a look at my operation.

Do not use your horse manure unless it has been well composted. If you compost it right the week problem will be a lot less. Horse manure is high in nitrogen and that is why it will burn your plants if it is not well composed. Just rake up the manure along with any hay that falls on the ground and put it in a pile. Good luck and happy gardening.

Randy

I suspect with all the Jack Pine in your area the soil is a bit on the acid side. Get a soil test and go from there. They will tell you what you need to add to bring the ph down so veggies will thrive. Lots of free manure is availble in the area so plan on tilling in a few pickup loads. Aged cow manure works great, horse has to much weed seed. You should have good luck with tomatoes, Improved Early Girl is a good choice. If you have ample water you should do well. Don't try to get an early jump, garden in by Mothers Day is a good rule of thumb.

The soil here varies from very sandy to clay. Our garden happens to be mostly clay. I've done a few things to make it more hospitible, but it is basically not plant friendly.

Last year was the first planting. My Dad happened to be here at the time, and showed me a "trick" he uses. For example, for corn, he removes a couple trowels of dirt where each seed will go and places a scoop of bagged steer manure in each hole. Then, the seed goes in and is covered with dirt. Same with tomato plants. For something like beans, you can hoe a shallow trench, fill with manure, place seeds and cover with dirt.

Even in poor soil, the manure supplies enough nutrients to help the plants grow well. I think you could use this technique to plant your whole garden space this season with reasonable expectation of a respectible first year crop.

OkieG

OKieG, some manures are too rich and will burn plants, but otherwise that's a great way to plant and your dad knew what he was doing. When I was raising rabbits, I let the manure dry, then ran it through the little chipper/shredder which made it almost a powder and did the same thing with that. I don't know of a better fertilizer than rabbit manure; won't burn plants and you don't have to worry about using too much. One year when my clay wouldn't till right, too many big hard clods, I planted 48 tomato plants (a dozen each of 4 varieties) just as you said and after harvesting an estimated 1,500 pounds and when we simply had no use for anymore, I mowed them down even though they were still producing great.