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A different idea for a shop
I've been thinking about building a shop, 30x40x14
I was thinking about forming and pouring a 6" to 12" high wall around the parimeter (to compinsate for drop in grade) and then filling in compacting and then pouring the floor. Then building the walls on 4' center like you would a house using 2x6x14's
The advantage to this will be...
1, I would have to worry about trucking in fill to level the whole area.
2, cost would not be any more than using 6x6 on 8' centers
3, on 4' centers, this will allow me to use 8' sheet of plywood for interior
4, For all practicle senses, I could build the walls by myself... infact do most all of it alone
What do you think ?
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Go for it. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Egon
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Where did the 14' come from? Is that a standard stud length or something? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Also.......are the roof trusses on 4' spacing as well? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Dave... Dave... Dave.... We've chated/responded for a long time and you still forget what I do... [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]
14' high walls will allow me to have 13' 6" high door opening... I need at least 13' to be able to drive my Western Star truck... Canadian built Semi [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I don't know about the roof trusses. The shop across the street is a 40x40 and the trusses is on 10' center. They used 2x4 on edge for strength.
I'm not crazy about that. I might go 4' centers with 1x4's for the roof.
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Er.....ah... [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] ...er It's all coming clear to me now.. [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Truck=high clearance=14' walls. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] You aren't one of those "pre-selectors" are you? [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
You aren't one of those "pre-selectors" are you?
Aaaaa.... I'm having a blonde moment here, what are you asking ??? [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Truck mechanics who work on air-shifted transmissions like the Fuller 13-Speeds have always been able to tell who "pre-selects" and who doesn't by how badly worn the shifter forks are. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Pre-selectors actuate the air shift before they actually pick up on the throttle so the transmission will shift faster when they finally do pick up their foot. Of course that exerts tremendous pressure on the shifter fork when it is pushing-pushing-pushing on that collar and there is too much gear tooth pressure to allow it to move. When I had the machine shop we had mechanics bring in shifter forks to have them built back up to full size and there was always a lot of attendant cussing about that so-and-so driver who PRE-SELECTS...@##//!!# [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I always think about that when I am driving my pickup which has a forest of levers on the floor and I don't put pressure on the shifter forks until they are ready to be moved. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Aaaaaah....
Nope, I have to pay for the repair bills and I just don't have 4 grand to over haul a tranny every couple years. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
You don't take a truck this caliber My Truck Pic and trash it.. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]
Naw, I need a place to work on the ole girl that doesn't involve working on gravel... Ever loose a washer or try to scoot around on a creeper in gravel [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Handy; REALLL nice. [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] You sure don't want to half%@# that. What do you have in it? You must be very sure of adding that filtered oil in that. Man, I've reservations just putting it in my Stroker! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Just looking at that rig I suspect that he has a 165 Cummins in there. Naturally aspirated of course. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Dave; I'm not gonna offer a bet on that. When you stick that much money in a truck, you may as well go for two house payments! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I bet it's at least a 365, but Handy ain't talking. Oh well, it is a nice day outside. Wonder if he's making money today? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] When I was just learning to drive trucks in da early-early sixties at 17-18 years of age, we had one diesel with a 165 Cummins in it. We thought that truck was THEE ULTIMATE DEVELOPMENT in land transportation. We had some real high cube gassers as well, ...GMC 503's and 426's.....and in those days you went up long grades in first-under-under, and the heat in the cab was so bad that you set the hand throttle and then stood outside on the running board and drove the truck by reaching through the LH window. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I'm not kidding. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] They also did a lot of pushing too, when a slower truck was in front and there was no hope of passing on single lane hiway grades. We had a GMC 6-71 with a set of 24' doubles and one time my Dad's hired driver stuck it on a steep grade when he missed a downshift. We took another tractor we had and chained them up together and JUST DID get that load moving again. When both drivers dumped the clutch there was like silence for a second before the black smoke began to pour out. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] The first time I drove a Kenworth with a Silver 92 in it....8V92 w/ twin turbos feeding the blower....I could not BELIEVE that a truck could have that much power. You barely ever needed to shift that 13 Speed. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Dave; Oh yeah, the goode olde days. I used to haul a 580B TLB on a 69 IHC Loadstar, a gasser at that. It had a rollerback bed and winch setup. Youd winch the machine up on the bed until you got thr rear wheels on then tilt the bed down. Youd lift the front wheels right off the ground. I hated that truck. Then there was the converted OTR GMC, that had a huge 318 jimmy. It was converted to a tandem dump. With a triaxle lowboy with the 580 on board, and a load of gravel, it made for an interesting ride. I do like the newer IHC 4000's though. A friend of mine hauls heavy equipment for a living, you should see his truck. 9200 IHC Eagle with double standup sleeper, with a C-15 Cat. He drags loads that even make that thing work.
Kenworth, ahhh, my dream machine. W900 with a C-15. Hey, if you dream, dream big huh?
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I had a '68 IH 2050 with the RD 450 in it (gas) and it was really a nice truck. I had a big water well workover rig on it. I also had a '69 2050 with the V8 gas 400-something cube engine....I didn't care for that V8 engine. Also had a 74 IH 1600 under a service truck body, Gas, on air, a nice service truck. I am still sitting on a CDL; you just never know when you might have to hop in and drive...... [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Oh, look out guys... LOL
165... 365 [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Boys, times have changed BIG time [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Try a 525 N14 Plus Select putting 465 hp to the ground
13spd tranny with 3.42 Rockwell Rears.
Top end is somewhere around 127 mph [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
You have trucks out there with 550 cats and 600 Cummins [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Haven't you noticed that trucks aren't going 35 mph up hill ?
Those guys are not always empty most of the time [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
I've also observed that if you are not travelling at least 70 MPH all you see is a great big grill in your back window. And it really doesn't matter what the road - snow - ice - sleet - fog conditions are! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Egon
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Yes Egon I know... [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]
I don't like it either, I won't make excusses for those idiots. All I can say, is for myself, I don't like running up on someone and I have many trucker friends that feel the same way as myself.
The biggest thing I've noticed the past couple years is a person will be in the left lane or center lane talking on the cell phone totally oblivious of the traffic behind them.
A lot of states are adopting laws restricting trucks to the right 2 lanes (unsafe in my opinon), which makes the center lane our left lane... now you have a bozo in the center lane running 5 mph under the speed limit without a care in the world. Many of us try to follow the laws, but when faced with an idiot with a cell phone being a road hazard... well lets say it becomes very fustrating, especially when some have such a tight delivery scheduel. ( everyone wants their product yesterday )
I haul equipment and oversized loads... not only do I have to deal with the general public totally oblivious on how to drive aound me, but I have to deal with the idiot truckers that should know better but don't.
On a good note, Trucking as a whole, we are at our safest... accidents per million miles driven as we ever have been.
Also out of all the accident there are... only 3% are caused by truckers ! This is based on statical fact [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Unfortunantly when we are involved in an accident... its usually devistating... [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
I often ask people... Would you cut over in front of a locamotive ? Of course they say NO .. of course not... I usually ask them why would they cut off or crowd a truck when their chance of survival is just as poor ....
Usually that ends the conversation.
Anyhow... My idea for a shop is on track..? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Now handyman, YOU said a different idea for a shop! Hum, interesting concept! Wonder if it meets codes, cause I'd like to look at that too, BUT I'd like to consider a 3 car garage with a loft!
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Handy; I agree completely on the fools and cell phones. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] The ones that are a real treat are the ones that like to go around you on the suicide and cut you off, or hang by the right trailer corners. I, myself, as well as you could share many stories of stupidity, I'm sure. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]
Anyway, your barn. I see no reason why you couldn't do what your talking, just make sure your trusses are on 4' centers too, and run purlins across the top chord. I don't know if you have codes where you are, but it should be run past the building dept. if you have one. With the nice 14' tall walls, your going to have quite a bit of lateral loading from wind. I assume your going to use OSB sheathing on the walls? If so, you'll gain alot of lateral support from using that.
Hope I didn't confuse you, sometimes I'm good at that! Feel free to PM me or ask more questions, I do try to help. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Keep the shiny side up man!! [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Most Truckers are extremely curtious and treat others with respect.
Unfortunetly they have timelines, log books, and delivery dates in conjunction with low hauling rates which all combine for a tough haul for the truckers.
My biggest problem is the lack of driving skill and road knowledge which results in holding the truckers up or not allowing them the speed with which they want to approach a hill. I pull over whenever possible and do speed up when possible.
On one Cross Canada trip pulling a 15K bumper pull trailer with a 96 dodge diesel with a camper on it [ gross 24K ] I spent some evening truck stop time talking to one of the fellows with whom I'd been playing leapfrog all day. He indicated I'd not done too badly and did note I was way overloaded.
Egon
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Re: A different idea for a shop
[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] "Uverloaded" is a subjective term. Which axle was overloaded? Did that Dodge have dual wheels in the rear? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] We have a gooseneck van trailer that puts us at 21,000 gross behind my pickup, and every axle is well within good working limits. Of course a gooseneck has the advantage of loading the tow vehicle farther forward and actually adding front axle weight. I can pull long, steep, grades alongside the 80,000 pounders in 3rd-Under at about 25-28 MPH; that seems to be a good speed to keep out of everyone's way. When I first put this combination together I was so concerned about the rear axle that I installed a temp gauge to monitor the lube oil temperature. I have seen it at 265, but that is not abnormal for a gear box. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] A lot of the fifth wheel travel trailers and a diesel tow pickup will gross about 24K, and those folks think all is well with the world. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
But Dave, the dealer said I could do it!! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Check out some of the SUV's and 1/2 tonners out there. It's downright scary. I try to keep away from anybody dragging a housetrailer. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
3/4 Ton and about 8000 pounds overthe limit. Remember there was a camper on the truck with a bumper hitch trailer. This is a big difference from a gooseneck.
Egon.
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Re: A different idea for a shop
"I've been thinking about building a shop, 30x40x14....."
Gofurit Handy!! If you are at 4' centers for the inside, make outside at least 3" longer to compensate the stud width. When pouring concrete for my 39x51 barn slab they put crashed rock in fiberglass "sandbags" and stacked um around (18" inside the form to build perimeter edge of footer) then filled inside the bags with lose fill. Cover with 6mil plastic moisture barrier as well.
I do a lot of freeway (I24 & I40) driving in our suburban observing the drivers around me, and I commend you (truck drivers) puttin up with the knotheads you mentioned, especially around music city. I like the bumper sticker I saw the other day"Hang up and drive".
I give trucks the right of way, just a driving courtesy I guess, but my experiance tells me to stay out o the way of bigger then me vehicles. I don't try to defy the laws of physics... only one solid can occupy one space at any given time... Anyhow, hope your shop turns out well. (I'm still tryin to get a metal roof on mine....)
rg
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Re: A different idea for a shop
roho, my garage is 3 car. the Miracle Steel brand building is 36 by 48 feet with 12 ft wall height. I have a 21 by 48 shed on one side. It is all open span steel truss constructon with "I" beam columns. The center door is 14 ft high and will clear the stack of any legal tractor (13' 6" on interstate). This is 3 bays with 3 doors, each bay is about 12 ft wide. There are no obstructons or interior columns. I did subdivide the building into two 36 by 24 areas. One is the 3 door garage and the other is a shop. I finished the shop end as a two story with 10 ft ceilings on ground floor and 12 in the upstairs. Pt dormers on both sides of the upstairs to gain floorspace and made attic closets to capture back the rest of the floor space where ceiling is too low.
Roof is 12:12 pitch. Roof peak in 30 ft above slab. The garage half is fully open cathedral ceiling as I didn't need any more "upstairs" floor space although a retrofit to add it to upstairs shop would be easy or a mezanine floor for the garage would be doable also. I elected to not use automatic garage door for center door as it would be a tad expensive and not used as much as the shorter doors which I did automate. ON the 14 ft tall door I use a chain pull wench style opener and it is so easy and smooth a pre-schooler can do it.
I also extended the center bay 6 ft into the shop area so the divider wall is not straight but has a bite out of it. The ceiling above that "bump out" is just over 14 feet too. This is just in case I need to ever garage something longer than aouit 24 feet. Cab with big sleeper?
There are pix of all this in the house building section (Oklahoma farm house thread)
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
<font color="blue"> </font color> wench style opener
Never heard of this type of opener?? Does your wife know you have one of those?
Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Hello Pat, I try to keep up with YOUr building pics & think I found the pic of the garage! Is it just one or more! Could YOU give me page numbers of pages where they are? Really liked the interior shot I saw! roho
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Egon, You may suspect (sub rosa) that she is the wench in question. I can't confirm or deny it here.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
roho, maybe if I get time I will do a public service kinda thing and publish a table of contents for the farmhouse thread... at least the pix.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Hey Pat this ain't GatorBoy U'r emailing to! If I wanted negativity I'd go somewhere else! Just thought U had the page Number sorry for asking!
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Re: A different idea for a shop
This is 3 bays with 3 doors, each bay is about 12 ft wide.
Not to steal any of Handys' thunder, but Pat, what type of doors do you have on this? Rollups? I am building a 4 stall garage/barn/woodshop/mechanicshop and want to use 10x8 rollups...like they use on storage outfits. Enjoyed visiting your pics on other thread....
Have a mediocre country day amigo,
roy
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Re: A different idea for a shop
roho, Be calm man, I don't confuse you with the GATORDUDE and I wasn't being NEGATIVE! I was being serious. I really should, time permitting, make a post that is a table of contents for that thread. I too have difficulty finding stuff in it. Trust me, If I had a clue, I'd tell you where to look. I have to page through like everyone else as frustrating as that may be. Unfortunately I DO NOT HAVE a FAST CONNECTION SO DOING SO IS verrrrrrrrrry SLOW. TONIGHT THE GODS OF THE INFOBAHN AGAIN HAVE GRANTED ME 32k.
Please don't be offended as no ofense was intended.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
roy, All three doors are roll-ups. The two "small" doors are 8 ft high and the one in the center is 14 ft high with a chain winch (as opposed to the previously mentioned wench.) The larger center door is veery easy to raise and lower but if you go tooooo fast you can throw the chain off the sprocket and have to get a tall ladder to fix it. I have two 12 ft wide by 14 ft tall doors in my older shop bld and have the same OVER SPEED problem so I guess it is well known problem. The two shorter doors are both on radio controlled automatic open/close systems. The tall door in the center doesn't get used nearly as often and the larger sized automatic unit was pretty expensive. I didn't get insulated roll up doors and note that during a hot spell the morning sun makes the doors pretty hot so I will be putting some foam insulation on them when I get a chance.
I have a rollup on the side of the shop so I can bring stuff in under the A/C or forced air heat to work on it. As this is a conditioned space this door is insulated. I still have some equipment I need to get on wheels so I can easily move it out of the way to accomodate a truck or tractor or whatever. I'm looking forward to being able to get under something on a creeper without having sweat pool up in my eyes and blind me.
This rollup in the shop also has a manual chain hoist opener. It is super easy to raise/lower and seals very tightly, no leaks. I asked for it to be a bit tighter than normal and I have to put my foot on the handle to slide the latch home.
The shed on the side of the shop/garage has a 2:12 shed roof starting at 12 ft. The shed is full length down the side of the garage/shop. It is 48 X 21 ft with columns at the outside edge on 12 ft centers so it is organized as 4 each 12 ft by 21 ft bays. I have no definite plans to enclose the one 48 ft side so I only have walls on three sides. If it rains in too much or the snow drifts are toooo deep inside then I will put four bypass doors to close in the other side. I will use two tracks so I could have any two of the four bays open at a time. That should provide sufficient access as well as fresh air and daylight. I could put windows in the door if I decide I need the extra daylight.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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"...go tooooo fast you can throw the chain off the sprocket and have to get a tall ladder to fix it."
Hey Pat, now that's pretty good ...I never thought about training a ladder to fix stuff I can't reach. I was talkin to one last night and wanted it to install the band board so I could hang my porch rafters but I've been able to get it to only extend up or down. Well, once in great while it gets outa hand and bumps or knocks things over when it reaches out tooofar but most of the time it's just kinda dumb....
Actually your pics are a real inspiration to get my barn finished. I'll be happy just to get it dried-in (perhaps next couple weeks) and followed by siding, doors, windows, etc. I will also have an inside door (our old 16x7 garage door which I'll move when we renovate the attached garage to a family room). But goin now to check out more of your OKie home thread... I too played in the dirt a little bit digging foundation flat with a skid-loader...the thing beat me up, and dumped 1/2 load on myself!!! Yeah I thought I had the controls mastered and moving fast, I got the bucket's lower and tilt "backurds" and ...well... ate a bunch a dirt for lunch. But you mentioned "foam insulation" for your doors..are you talkin the bubble wrap type or the thin (1/4") solid dense-foam sheeting? I am checking out uninsulated doors as well, installing on East side of barn so I'll need insulation on them at some point. I'll post some pics when I can seperate the grandkids from the barn project on disks, although I think we have more of the GK's then barn. Thanks for your reply,
Have a blessed weekend.
roy
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Roy, Haven't you heard of the Ladder Day Saints? Well on the annually observed Ladder Day you get one of the deacons of the Ladder Day Saints to do that thing that they do with your ladder. It isn't cheap but it is effective.
Actually, I am vacillating between two sources of insulation to put in/on the 3 uninsulated garage doors that are facing NE and do contribute heat to the garage. This garage has insulated ventilated nail deck under the shingles and a ridge vent but no wall insulation on three sides. The shed on the south side shades it for the first 12 feet above ground and that helps.
I have some 1 1/4 inch rigid 4x8 sheets of foam left from the basement wall insulation and could use it to insulate the doors. I also am considering a "quilt" of styrofoam pieces I have saved from various shipping containers. A little spray glue and voila. I don't have enough of either to do the job. It isn't a high pri job but I will get to it eventually.
Remember to bevel the edges of any THICK foam so it doesn't bind when going 'round the bend.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
<font color="blue"> ( Hey Pat this ain't GatorBoy U'r emailing to! If I wanted negativity I'd go somewhere else! ) </font color>
[img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Why would my name be mentioned? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
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LOL! .. Well ya don't suppose I could get dem "deecons" to sweep da sunshine off my roof, eh? But at any rate, I sleep good cause I have 'muslins' on my bed!
You're right Pat, about the rounded edges on ridged foam insul on the doors. Have to do both top and bottom edges sorta like the tambor on roll top desk.
I used 1" ridged foam (blue stuff from HomeDepot) on my typical overhead garage door on end of house (faces east) and it made a huge difference. Door has panel sections that are 1 3/4" deep and I cut the foam to just fit the panel within the natural channel created by the contoured edges. Also glued um then wedged um with wood strips. Garage is standard 24x24 space and I can heat it nicely with small 1500 watt heater. we have HVAC vent out there but we never use it. perhaps will when it is a family room. Have you noticed a difference with the insulated decking on your garage roof? Is that OSB with foil laminated one side? My brother in FW TX had a foil sheet type insul. laid over his attic insul. and says it has done real well. I priced some stuff called "thermoshield" which is 1/4" small bubble wrap stuff sandwiched between a tough foil, 4x125ft roll was 120.00. This might be okay for the rollup doors but I wonder how much space it requires when rolled up with the door ......I don't think the canister radius, center shaft to wall clearance will allow it.
Gotta roll out and get some werk dun mi amigo,
Have a blessed day,
roy
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Roy,
Last time you posted, you wiped out the Subject line. I thought I better put it back so when you are Viewing Posts you have some idea what the thread is about. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Re: A different idea for a shop
Dave, Thanks man. I don't have "computering" on my resume, so consequently I may get things a bit messed up. I could blame it on my mouse but it's kinda like that ladder I have.......Thanks for keepin this thread straight. I don't have a clue how I knocked out the subject line, I thought I just clicked on "reply" and started typin in the little "post" box....Guess I got squirrely somehow....missed the target clean with my two finger typing. As they say in the Bahamas' " No problem, Mon"!
But...let me throw this question out, and I hope I don't knock down the sign again. (It's tough bein tall at times) I am attaching a '2x6 bander board' on the side of my barn to which I plan to attach 2x6 porch rafters using metal ties. The barn wall is constructed of 2x6 studs with double top plate and on top of that are 14" I-joist. Across ends of I-joists, is 14" rim board (OSB stuff about 5 qtr thick) I installed 7/16 OSB sheathing and the 2x6 bander board is attached to the outside of the sheathing. My question is what length of nail should I use to attach the bander? I've put up a couple boards thus far and been using 3 1/8 (I think #8s) in nail gun. But I just don't think 3/4 is enough 'holding' power for secure construction. I haven't found anything that tells how much penitration a nail should have, but I always thought it should be around half the length or a little more. If I had cought the problem before the sheathing , I would have compensated for the 2x6 across the top of wall. Hind sight? I could put some lag bolts in the bander I guess.....Gotta get the porch roof ready for the metal roof...Thanks for any replys, Have a blessed day,
roy
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RoyPat, Insulated ventilated nail deck is an OSB based product. It is manufactured in three layers. The top (after installation) layer is 4x8 sheets of OSB of whatever thickness you specify. The bottom layer is 4x8 sheets of rigid foam insulation of whatever thickness you specify. I suppose you could get it with foil on the upper surface to reject the infra-red radiant heat load. The center layer is widely spaced foam block spacers of whatever thickness is specified. These blocks allow air to move between the deck and the insulation. Some allow air to move transverse as well as longitudinally, depending on your design needs.
The way it works is: As soon as there is solar heating of the roof deck the heated air between the layers starts to rise (chimney effect) and exits at the ridge vent. As the air rises it draws in fresh air at the bottom. This continuous circulation of fresh air carries away a lot of heat from the roof deck and shingles. This is real good for the shingle life and also reduces the heat transfer to the building space below. Reducing the delta T is as good as increasing the R-factor as regards reducing the heat transfer but can be cheaper.
If the circulating air reduces the delta T by 1/2 that is the same as doubling the R-value. This can be a good deal as Mother Nature pumps the fresh air for free and you don't have to buy all that expensive insulation.
My open span steel building section of my house has no traditional rafters. It has 2x8 lumber running at right angles to the trusses. The warranty on the shingles that qualified me for a 22% homeowner's insurance discount requires that the nail deck be ventilated. How do you insulate and ventilate in this sceanario? I took what I thought to be the most practical approach.
I had independently "invented" about the same system when I designed and built a sun porch on the back of my moms house a couple years earlier. We had 2x6 rafters but I wanted a better insulation system than batts of F/G and I wanted air circulation. I added additional 2x6 underneath and overlapping the rafters to give a deeper cavity. I left an air space just under the OSB nail deck running from the ventilated soffit to the original eave vents so air could flow fron the porch eaves across into the attic of the house. I dropped down a couple inches and put rigid foil backed foam in the cavities (foil side up to reject about 97% of the radiant heat.) I then put F/G batting under the foam and sheetrocked under that in conventional manner.
Later when faced with the insulation problem for the steel part of the house, I found that "MY INVENTION" was commercially available from several sources.
I have no insulation in the exterior walls of the garage half of the steel building portion of the house. The south side is protected from the sun by a shed roof at the 12 ft level and extending out 21 feet so the south wall never sees a ray of sun. The north side is not much of a heat gain either. the west end of the garage is an interior wall. The east end has the 3 roll-up doors, 2 each 8 footers and a 14 foter in the center. This end and the south slope of the 12:12 pitch roof are the main heat sources. The roof has the ventilated insulated deck and the east end has uninsulated metal roll-up doors. It is easy to see what my next insulation project should be.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]