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hi i am 46 male live up state ny. i want to build a 30'x32'x14' pole garage. for working on my projects my son and i. i am not a carpenter i was wondering,i can get 6"x6"x18' hemlock from a mill here 433.54 for 17 poles . the home centers want 1,380 for pt i love the pt for how it last. but have a small budget just want to get what i can done this summer and then floor and wiring next year what can i use for the bottoms of the post tar? or something like that 4' in ground please help . thanks.
I wouldn't do it. In fact, it is probably against the building code in your area. I know my township wouldn't ok a permit unless it was PT below ground. If you want to save on PT, I've seen barns done with (3) 2x6's nailed together for the columns. They use (3) shorter pieces (different lengths so the joints are staggered) of PT 2x6 below ground sticking up 1-3 feet. Then the rest of the column is made of regular SPF 2x6. I haven't calculated what the cost differential would be on my planned 36x72, but it would have to be significant for me to deviate from the traditional PT columns, considering the added work of "buildling" the columns onsite.
thanks like i sad i was wondering i am glad for your input . i have 5,000 budget and it would take 1,380,right off the bat and i have to be careful were it gos lol. i have to rent some machines and was trying to save money but not to cheapen up the building i am a newbie here and love all the talk on here so thanks again.
Behr and other brands have post treating chemicals you can use to soak the bottoms of your poles. Alternatively You can auger pier holes and extend the holes above ground with a DIY substitute for sonotube. Just coat some cardboard from used cardboard boxes on one side for a few feet with used motor oil and roll it up to make your own sonotube. Secure it with duct tape. Place rebar in the hole extending up into the sonotube. You can use a Simpson galvanized metal thingy designed to be embedded in concrete to attach timbers to or make your own devices.
You pour in concrete and when it hardens yo peel off the cardboard. The concrete piers in the ground act as the bottom of your poles. This requires different bracing as the connectioin from pole to concrete is not so rigid.
For a more traditional pole building rigidity stick a pipe into the pier hole and use it to attach the untreated poles to. Properly attached the steel reinforced concrete piers are an extension of the above ground pole. A couple advantages are: 1. there is no earth-wood contact and 2. You don't need to use treated wood.
Termites don't eat concrete and it doesn't rot much and lasts a good long time. If you have subterranean termites just inspect the above ground part of the concrete piers for mud tunnels and break them before they make their way to the wood. An inverted metal cup atop the pier is supposed to stop termites but I would favor having it right side up and filled with motor oil. They will NOT tunnel through motor oil.
Pat
Thanks very much i will sure think about doing that i love this site. i have looked around alot and get great ideas. my dad that has pass sometime ago was born in 1917 and made them with out pt wood . i have been looking around here up state n.y in the boonies lol and there is a lot of buildings with out pt.so thanks again for the info.god bless you and yours . mike
hi thanks for the 2 cents guys . i have been reading and asking people about pole building i get different how to's 10 out of 10 people . i was wondering if anyone on here has build a pole building on cement piers and used metal 6"x6" braces for setting on top of them and if so how strong would it be . thanks all.
I have two "pole" buildings. One is a hay barn that I recently had to "straighten some rafters on the west side and the other is a shop bld. The shop and the barn are all pipe framed, columns, rafters, trusses, columns (poles) the whole works. The barn has dirt floors except for a tack room, 3 sliding doors on north side (12, 12, and 14 fr wide) and one on the south (14 fr wide.)
The central section of the hay barn has DIY trusses made of welded pipe. and the outer sections are pipe rafters, same on east and west sides but the west side sagged down a lot.
I guess over 30 years of wind and snow bent the rafters. I jacked up the sag and welded in some braces. Roof is flat now.
I have a maniacal plan festering in my brain regarding the 35x70 foot shop building with 12 ft wide by 14 ft high doors at opposite ends and 10x12 office on the side. I will start a separate thread for it. Thinking of moving it, intact, not disassembly and reassembly.
Regarding 6x6 braces... You talking angle iron, channel, square tubing, or what? Vertical set in the concrete pier, vertical bolted to weld plates set into the concrete pier, or what? I am having a little problem understanding what you describe.
Do you intend to put wood poles inside the vertical steel like a boot? Break it down for me please.
Pat
Thanks for your info i am learning more and more on here everyday.yes i am talking about drilling my 17 holes and put sono tubes in the ground, fill with cement . then i have seen the site with socket kits but i also seen one site www.powrfab.com they are solid stainless steel come in all sizes mine would have to be 6"x"6 if i went that way but i am still thinking of doing it the old normal way lol.you know how it is i ask 10 people and get 10 different ways to do it lol i am going to build in the spring. know what i have to get but just cant make up my mine as in how i want to go . i mean 17 hemlock 6"x6"x18' for $433.49or 17 pt post for 1,380.00 +taxsi know its the best pt i mean but i have people that made pole barns out of hemlock and ceder and they are still up after all these years. thats why i was going back and forth with these ideas. i have people say why don't you do it this way or no do it like this . if i did go with a bracket they cost 60 to 70 dollars each if i had a lot of money i would be glad to build it with all the bling lol but small buget this year and then i want to do more next year. thank for your time and in put i need that . glad to here from ya mike.
Those brackets are not really all that exotic. With a little thought I'm sure one cold make their own at a much cheaper price.
The posts could also be fabricated for probably less than a solid post.
Do some costing of different systems but remember to factor in longevity difference between post in ground and concrete.
Do some searches on agricultural university data bases for different designs. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
thanks egon i will do some research on it thanks
Be aware that there are many right ways to do it. (and some wrong ones that seem OK maybe) The trick is to pick one that makes sense to you (not just to the guy selling you stuff to do the job) and if it also makes sense to any advisers that you think are up on the topic then that may increase your comfort factor.
The best way is not always the most expensive and the cheapest way is frequently not the best way. You need to pick a solution that is GOOD ENOUGH for your purposes in your circumstances.
Time and money are often a trade off. If yo need to watch the budget closely then look for methods that get the job done with lowered materials cost knowing it may take a little more DIY involvement. If you can weld or have a buddy to help with welding you can save $ on the attachments to connect poles to piers. IF yo want to put in more labor and less $ and reduce welding yo can make your attachments from stock steel shapes cut with a hacksaw if you have no better cutting tools.
Sonotube isn't all that expensive but they don't give it away either. Add up the cost of using sonotube to extend piers above ground level for all your piers and the cost may surprise you.
You can make your own sonotube out of free cardboard if you don't mind a little dumpster diving (or similar) to get cardboard. Cardboard water proofed with used motor oil or similar and secured with duct tape or similar will do nicely.
You can usually trade your time in place of $ if you think about it.
Pat
thanks that says it all , i really value your opinions. sounds like you have been down a few roads on this before lol. i helped a friend back in 1992 start a pole garage to make a car shop for income i come from work then stop in, keep in mine that it was new to me he had me get the ceder post to length , and he had me paint black top cellar on it about 5' all around at the bottom up. he worked in it for years but in 2004 had a stroke and cant work. he sold it it looks great but i cant see in the ground to see what shape the post are but he just put them in the ground and back filled them with the dirt that came out of the ground. maybe some day the guy that owns it now will step out shut the door and it will fall to the ground. i hope not, but thats some what of a reason why i am going to make one in the first place because of its small amount of materials compared to a stick garage . thanks again for your help mike.