Heating system plumbing question.

[EJB]

Hi guys....a heating/plumbing sytem question:

As part of a recent porch addition I am doing I need to take out a 5 foot window and replace it with a 5 ft french door...easy enough except below the window is a section of a Forced-hot-water baseboard system.

The basics of what I need to do are pretty simple, remove the section of baseboard and then connect the two open ends to each other to "complete" the loop.

I have done basic pipe-cutting and soldering copper pipes before, so that should be a problem, question is, will I introduce air into the pipes that I then need to "bleed" off someplace, or can I just make the connection and start the system up and the system will adjust itself? i.e. remove any air and/or add water back to the heating system?

Thanks a bunch [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[edt]

If your system gets air bound most systems have an air expeller at the boiler at the top of the extrol tank you also can put manual or automatic vents on elbows at there high points mine also have drawoff valves and ball valves for purging system hope this helps
EDT

[Mike_Dumond]

Guaranteed you're gonna have to bleed it. Now, I have a question for you. Will your system have enough baseboard left to efficiently heat the room??? If you look around, talk to heating contractors in the area, they should be able to get you an in-floor heating element to replace the 5 feet you're removing. Heat at the door will work better than heat on either side.

[knucklehead]

Mike's suggestion re: enough heating was excellent. We removed one 6' section in the Kitchen (North side of house) and put it in the Living Room (South) and now we feel the difference, even though we didn't reduce the "footage". Fortunately the woodstove in the cellar makes up the difference.

I'd add two things:

There are high efficiency hot water units, some with blowers, that take up less wall space. Our neighbors are remodeling an old house, and instead of long runs of baseboard, have opted for those type. They are taller, more like 18", and look like mini-monitor heaters (those wall unit/kerosene heaters, if you don't have those where you are). Check into those as an option to traditional baseboard.

We have added an upstairs loop, modified, repaired, and replaced baseboard and boilers. Our system has had multiple water changes in the last 10 years. There should be a threaded "spigot" near your circ pumps. We thread a piece of hose on it, and run it out the door, and lift the lever to lock the fill valve open when recharging the system. This blows out the big "bubbles", or dry sections in the pipe. Then we close up the circ system drain valve, let the pressure come up to where we want it cold (It will be higher, hot), and start the system. With the circs running, we crack the valve on each loop just a little, and let air and water burp out - we usually use a pail, because you won't have to do it for long, unless you live in a palace. There will be a lot of oxygen in new water, and the separator will take care of that.

BTW, some systems have bleed valves at each baseboard unit, and you may be able to bleed off just enough water to get at that unit, if you can valve off the other loop(s) and prevent the whole system from draining (ie, the whole upstairs loop running out through your little 1st floor bleed valve [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] ).

BTW, II: We don't mess with the boiler drain valve, because it isn't necessary to drain the boiler, and because it's the lowest point (unless you have it on the same floor as one of your loops), we don't worry about air getting stuck in there.

BTW, III: If you are not familiar with your system, make sure you take time to note the valve locations, their open positions (ball valves, with the straight lever handles, are open when the handle is in line with the pipe, if installed conventionally), so you won't freak out if you can't remember how something went. Voice of experience [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[EJB]

Sounds like I'll need to bleed, and no, we won't have enough baseboard left over to heat the room. I left out of my question that the piece we will be removing from under the winodw we will be adding to another wall. It still may not be quite warm enough 'cause it won't be on the outside wall anymore, but I can always add more later if need be or else go with a floor system down the road. (used to have radiant heat at the last house...nice but costly).


Thanks for the help. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[EJB]

Thanks again for the detailed post...I'll probably be tackling it this week before it gets too cold...doors are due to arrive end of the week anyway and I need to be ready for them. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[knucklehead]

Let us know back here after you get done - your experience will be valueable for the "next guy"

[EJB]

One last question...like I said, it sounds like I will need to bleed the system, but how will I know if it worked or not? Is it so obvious that you turn on the furnace, start ciculating and no water moves around? or is it more subtle than that...so how do I know if I did it right? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Mike_Dumond]

If you need a major bleed, the water won't move around in the pipes. If most of the air is purged, and only a little remains, you'll hear it going through the pipes. There's no way you'll get all the water out, but you will get most. The air trap and auto bleeders will take care of the rest.

[beenthere]

EJB
How did the plumbing work out on the heating system? Did you manage to purge all the air? I was doing something similar with my system (having to cut out a section of radiant tubing) and probably should add in another section (removed a sliding door and put in a window).