Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ...

[Mosey]

We have 2 kittens that we got when they were about 8 weeks old. They live outdoors (if this offends anyone, then please just stop reading this post. I tried posting a question like this on another forum and got lectured about how cruel I was to make them live outdoors. I'm not going to have them in the house, so please don't lecture me, it won't do any good). We've had them for over 3 months now.

They had already been "trained" (I'm finding out that "training cats" is an oxymoron) to use kitty litter. We are trying to get them to use a pile of sand near the edge of the woods, which is about 100 feet from the house. They like sand. I know that because this pile of sand came from the sandbox and they were using it. We didn't know it because we thought we had it covered well enough, but they were finding a way to squeeze in under the tarp. We removed all of the sand, dumped it at the edge of the woods, put in new sand, and made a new cover out of wood that they can't get under. We don't want them using the flower beds around the house due to the smell and the fact that we work in there with our hands. I have been trying to gradually move the kitty litter tub until it's at the edge of the woods and then once they're used to going there just eliminating the kitty litter.

Well, things are not going well at all. I was told by several sources that they won't go anywhere they can't cover it up afterwards. But, for a while we found cat crap in the yard, in the breezeway, and in the garage. We finally got them cured of that by scolding them and taking them to the litter box frequently. We thought things were going good until one day about 3 weeks ago when I found cat crap under a bush in a flower bed next to the house. We can't tell if it's just one or both of them. We take them out to the litter box 2 or 3 times a day, so they know where it is. We keep it covered with a cover I fabricated out some metal (sort of like a miniature carport) so the kitty litter stays dry. I'm at a loss as to what to do. We have put chicken wire under the bush and they crap on top of it. We put screen there and they crap on top of that too. They don't seem to care that they can't cover it up. When we find the crap, which is every day, we get the cats, show them the pile and scold them (we don't hit them or spank them), scoop up the crap and take the cats and the crap to the litter box and show them where it's supposed to go. This has been going on for weeks now.

If I would have known cats are this stupid I would never have gotten them! I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to make this work. I built them a nice house and have treated them well, but they just don't seem to be able to figure out such a simple thing as where they should go to take a dump! One suggestion I got was that they don't want to walk that far. I realize that it's anyone's nature to take the easy way, but total defiance is not going to cut it around here. I'm not going to keep spending money on cat food if they don't start co-operating!

[hazmat]

<font color="blue"> </font color> When we find the crap, which is every day, we get the cats, show them the pile and scold them <font color="black"> </font color>

You're wasting your time with the "scolding". You've got to catch them in the act.

How about keeping the litter box closeby and emptying it in the woods?

[Mosey]

<font color="orange">How about keeping the litter box closeby and emptying it in the woods?</font color>

We've actually already tried that. We had the litter box about 30 feet from the house, under a tree. The problem was the smell. It's very humid here in Indiana, so the kitty litter stayed damp, even though it didn't get rained on, and it just didn't absorb the smell. We'd have to clean it out every day, which is not an option, we have better things to do than clean up after a cat all the time. That's why I wanted to get it farther from the house. My neighbor had an outdoor cat (that died of old age last year) and he said she never had a problem with going that from the house.

If we lived in a drier climate, your idea would probably work. Hmmm, maybe now I have a good excuse to move back to Colorado!

Does anyone have any ideas on how to catch them in the act? I certainly can't just sit and watch them all day! Do they always go at certain times, or is it random?

[Trev]

Hi Danny,

I doubt this will help, but who knows..

We have slowly acquired six cats, and they all are free to go in and out as they want via a cat door. What initially irked me was that they would come in, use the litter box, and then go back outside. I was always thinking, gee, thanks guys, I really want to clean this litter box! But then, slowly, I noticed I had to clean it less and less often. I have no idea where they are going now, but I've never run across any kitty droppings.

The only thing I can suggest is that cats are incredibly ideosyncratic. One cat never covers it up in the litter box, the others always do. A neighbor has a cat who will only use the litter box if it's in a specific room.. nowhere else! If it isn't in that room, he'll do it on the floor. Go figure.

Maybe you should consult a professional animal trainer of some kind? The local veterinarian might know of one, or might have suggestions him/herself. I've always found that I expend less total energy if I adapt to the cat's behavior than if I try to get them to adapt to mine. But I'm a sucker for cats. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Hayseed]

I would not dump too much litter in the woods. My experience with litter is that it will not dissolve or go away. At least not in a short period of time. You keep dumping litter in the woods and you are just going to end up with a nasty pile that will eventually have to be dealt with in another way (scooping it up and hauling it off, burying it, etc.)

[rocky2]

Cat poop. Now there's a topic. I must be lucky, both of our cats who were taken in as stray kittens never left any tootsie rolls anywhere they shouldn't have. They say kittens are "trained" on bathroom etiquette by their mom. Since our cats are in and out cats, I don't really know where they go. Their litter box is really only used by them in the winter when they don't want to poop ouside in the cold. It also has been moved not only from upstairs, but to the basement, from one house to another. We show them where it's at once and they find it when the need to. They both seem to rush to the door shortly after finishing their dinner, so that may be the time to take them to the litter box/area and watch their little cat butts. Repetition, repetition, repetition.
I don't think scolding a cat works like with a dog. You never really own a cat, THEY just decide to spend time hanging around YOU.

[Hank]

<font color="blue"> The only thing I can suggest is that cats are incredibly ideosyncratic </font color>

I'd have to agree on that one! Worked for over 20 years in a woodworking shop, with anywhere from 6 - 16 cats at a time (but no mice). Most of them preferred to crap near the edge of a sawdust/shavings pile and cover it up there. Of course, you had to be careful when you needed shavings for your own use [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Lots of customers would come in for free shavings, but we never warned them; they sort of learned on their own.

One cat, however, would just crap right on the bare concrete floor, every time. The floor in such a shop was never completely bare, always at least a very thin film of sawdust from sanding. She would go through all the motions of covering it up, making a complete circle around the pile to "gather" sawdust; you could see the prints of her "strokes", kind of like spokes in a circle.

[Mosey]

"One cat, however, would just crap right on the bare concrete floor, every time. The floor in such a shop was never completely bare, always at least a very thin film of sawdust from sanding. She would go through all the motions of covering it up, making a complete circle around the pile to "gather" sawdust; you could see the prints of her "strokes", kind of like spokes in a circle."

Next time someone tells me how "smart" cats are, I'll tell them that story!

Things are looking up now though. I'm using a combination of mothballs in the flower bed and more fencing to keep them out of there. Meanwhile, I'm using a suggestion from someone that worked perfect this morning! After being fed they get locked in their house for a few hours. I let them out and carried them back to the woods where the sand pile and litter box is. Tiger, the male, went right away and got praised and treats right away. Tiny, the female, putted around for a while, didn't want to use the nice clean kitty litter or the nice soft sand, but finally went a little farther into the woods and took a dump there. She got praised as though she just won the MVP of the Superbowl and she got treats! Only time will tell how long this success will last, but at least it's progress.

[Mosey]

Not so good this morning! One of them went in their house. I took Tiger out to the sand pile and he didn't go, so no treats and back in their house for him! I took Tiny out there and she went in the sand pile, so she got treats and got to stay out and play. I'm going to have to partition their house into 2 rooms so I can tell for sure who did it next time this happens.

[TimSullivan]

Hi Hank,

I have your cats sister or at least mine has the same brain cell as yours. She is an indoor cat but does the same routine in my shop. Not in the rest of the house just my shop.

She is fine as long as I keep her out of the shop but if she can get in there she leaves me a present.