Built in bookshelf, try to paint or build new one?

[hazmat]

I've got to say, I really appreciate the info I get from the 'bynet sites!

In our soon to be redone living room, there is a built in bookshelf. It is a complete hack job. Typical of new construction, they built it the cheapest way possible.

No backing (just the plaster over the sheetrock). Also they used premade shelving -- Particle board with white formica laminate on it.

Can I paint the formica, or am I just wasting my time? I have a spare shelf that I plan to test paint. My plan was to sand then prime & paint.

I am considering ripping it out and rebuilding it. I am very much a rookie when it comes to woodworking. I know just enough to be dangerous. I'm Looking for books to get ideas / plans on how to do it. Is this considered furniture or cabinetry?

Any guesses at how much it will cost for materials? It is three sections 7' high by 3' wide by 1' deep. You know is it $100 or $1,000? What wood do you recommend? It will be painted afterwards (Benjamin Moore "Dove White").

Last question, should I install it over the planned hardwood floor or put the shelf in first & bring the floor up to it?

[Hank]

Stephen,

<font color="blue"> I've got to say, I really appreciate the info I get from the 'bynet sites! </font color>

Same here! Your engineering perspective is certainly one of the most helpful.


<font color="blue"> Can I paint the formica</font color>

Yes. As you suggest, sanding is necessary to give the surface some "tooth" so the paint will hold. Easiest way to do this, if you have one, is with a little vibrating sander, sometimes called a "jitterbug".

<font color="blue"> Is this considered furniture or cabinetry?
</font color>

Technically, it is cabinetwork (or casework). However, there is no reason a nicely detailed piece (moldings, doors, etc), and/or one using a nice wood veneer or solid wood, could not be considered a piece of furniture.

<font color="blue"> Any guesses at how much it will cost for materials?</font color>

Cannot help you there, but it is pretty easy to estimate. A WAG would be right in the middle of that range, time you are done. It depends on what you use for material, which in turn might depend heavily on the equipment you have on hand to fabricate this. A table saw is very handy for cutting and dadoing. A circular saw and router can be used for all of this, but it will take time.

If you have a table saw, veneered plywood or particle board is a good way to go, because it is structurally superior to solid wood (almost no warping).

But, if you use plywood, you need some way to hide the edge at front. An easy way is to use a solid wood face frame, say 1x2, with a little wider piece across the bottom (1x4 or 1x6).

If you use solid wood (1x12 pine or spruce), the materials will be more, but you won't have to treat the front edge (though a face frame always makes a bookcase look better anyway).

For plywood, good paint veneers are poplar, gum, and birch.

<font color="blue"> Last question, should I install it over the planned hardwood floor </font color>

I cannot answer that one; perhaps someone else who has had experience in home remodeling will chime in. I spent 22 years building this stuff, but only in the shop. I usually did not know if my measurement included the finish floor or not.

A final note (as an engineer, you probably know this); if you build it separately for installation into the opening space, don't forget to allow a bit to "turn it up" when you're done. The diagonal measurement of one of the upright pieces has to be less than the ceiling height.

This is another reason a face frame is handy; you build the case a couple inches less and trim it out with the frame board at the top.

[hazmat]

Hank,

Thanks again for your help. I've got a jitterbug at home so I'll give painting it a shot.

Still thinking of building a new one because I want to be done with the room in one shot. I'd hate to go back to it later to redo the bookshelf.

My brother in law had some built at his house about the same size. Cost $2,500! Probably a reasonable price considering the materials &amp; labor involved, but too many other projects vying for my money right now.

I don't have a table saw yet [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] But I think I will be getting one for the harwood floor install. I don't want to rip the flooring with my circular saw or sabre saw!

[RobS]

I'll defer on the equipment/materials questions. Just watch Norm on the New Yankee Workshop. You'll spend about $10,000 for the tools and another couple thou on the materials.

Kidding aside, I would lay your floor first then put the cabinets on top of the floor. The joint will be cleaner and the floor will be much easier to lay. If you know for sure that you'll always have cabinets there you can save a little by only laying the flooring slightly beyond the cabinet edge. Use some scraps along the wall to make things level. We did our ceramic tile in our kitchen this way based on the tile guys recommendation and it worked out great. Looked a bit odd until the cabinets went in though [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[AndyF]

If you are going to paint, you might want to consider trying to salvage the existing shelves and dressing the built-in up with a face frame. The face frame can be integrated into your baseboard and use casings similar to your door casings. This will be a lot cheaper and quicker than rebuilding the whole thing and once you fill the shelves with books, you'll never really notice that the shelves are painted laminate.

Concerning your table saw comment for the hardwood floors, I have always found a chop saw to be more useful when laying the floor. The chop saw is easier to manuever on the jobsite and is plenty accurate for doing a floor.

[Hank]

<font color="blue"> I don't want to rip the flooring with my circular saw or sabre saw! </font color>

If you've only got the one (the last) piece to rip, and if you are running baseboard and shoe molding (that combined will hide more than 1" of irregularity at the perimeter), and if that is your only real need for a table saw, you could save a few hundred bucks and split that one piece with just about anything, including a hammer and chisel [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

In fact, (assuming you are using baseboard and shoe), you could probably lay out your floor so you start a certain distance away from one wall (say 1/2" or 3/4"), and you would end up the same distance away from the far wall without having to rip anything, using whole boards only. This approach depends on the width of your flooring boards, with narrower ones making it easier to juggle.

[hazmat]

Andy,

I have a compound mitre chop saw that will be used to cut the floor to length. Got that tool when the wife wanted crown molding in the bedroom [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img].

Hank,

The baseboard that is in the house is the cheap one piece stuff. It is only 9/16" thick or so. Doesn't leave much room for error. It looks OK when painted nice so we've decided to keep it. We haven't picked flooring yet, so I don't know if it will leave enough of an "expansion joint". My impression is that the nailed floors don't need as much as the floating floors. Correct me if I'm wrong [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

One of my character flaws (or is it really a strength?) is that I have to have the right tool for the job. Especially if I've used the right tool before and know what I am missing.

[hazmat]

Andy,

Thanks foe the advice on simply upgrading the existing cabinet frame. That sounds like the best plan yet. My biggest peeve with the install job was that it has no backing. I'll have to see what I can find for a thin plywood veneer to put up behind the shelves. Oh boy, another use for the table saw.

I'll try to snap a pic tonight so you guys can see the bookshelf. Unfortunately my camera is super low quality &amp; many details don't show up. But hey it was only $15. Maybe santa claus will bring me a nicer one [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Rob,

thanks for the tip on the flooring. My concern was more about it looking right vs. spending $$$ on the flooring. But at $6 +/- a square foot it adds up fast.

[Hank]

<font color="blue">We haven't picked flooring yet, so I don't know if it will leave enough of an "expansion joint". My impression is that the nailed floors don't need as much as the floating floors. Correct me if I'm wrong </font color>

I've never actually worked with installing any kind of flooring, though I have milled many miles of T&amp;G material, typically red or white oak. From what I've seen on the (my wife calls them) "build-em and fix-it shows", plain solid wood T&amp;G is driven up tight and nailed through the tongue. The T&amp;G joint itself allows for expansion and contraction.

What I meant by leaving space at the side perimeter walls was to utilize this free space to aid in the layout. 9/16" gives you a bit less to work with; the addition of a nice oak sanitary shoe to your existing baseboard would dress it up, and provide another 1/2" or so of free space.

Really, to make it look right (if you can't get it to come out even using whole boards), you would rip both sides, so your "reveal" is the same on both sides of the room [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[hazmat]

Hank.

I'll have to show the wife the "shoes" [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] . I'm always for a little more fudge factor. Thanks for the advice regarding equal reveal.