CAD for House and Outbuildings

[timb]

Pat,

How are you doing with the Punch software now? I just ordered the Punch top-shelf "Architectural Series 18". If I read their product comparo right, I think this one is includes everything else they have in the other products (not sure if all the landscape stuff from "Master Landscape" is included or not) plus a lot more including interior lighting effects.

I haven't been too impressed with the Broderbund packages I've seen so I'm hoping this one will cover about anything I can cook up for now. There are some decent discounts out there and Punch has a $20 rebate now so "AS18" ends up well under $100 even from Amazon (and free shipping).

FYI - if anyone is looking for an inexpensive basic CAD package - IMSI will let you download and use for free (forever, not a 30-day trial) an older version of their TurboCAD. (TurboCAD LE 4.1) Not 3D but seems to have all the other toys - and you can't argue with the price. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

IMSI Free Downloads page (look for the <font color="blue"> TurboCAD LE </font color> button)

Tim

[beenthere]

A month ago I inquired about the download on the IMSI site, and was mailed a 30 day free trial of TurboCAD/CAM which thoroughly confused me. It also said something about a $995 price, whereas I was looking on their site at something that was listed as $99. I didn't want the CAM part of the program, but was interested in the 3D. They sent me the $99 package, which was TurboCAD v8 standard, not pro.

I like what it can do but I don't like the fact that IMSI sent a "Getting Started Guide" that was for the Pro software (not a separate one for standard), which leaves me hanging out on a limb not knowing what I could do with the standard software. I am working at it and it does include house drawing. Relatively satisfied.

[timb]

I was stingier - and went for the unlimited-time free "LE" version. I think they now have 15-day trials of everything else they sell. I eventually did try the 3D V8 trial version but didn't have enough time with it to really form an opinion. IMSI periodically sends "special offer" upgrade emails.

I'm pretty computer literate but not a professional draftsman by any means so like any decent CAD package I've ever tried there was a learning curve even to "LE". I eventually figured out most of what I needed without a manual. (Don't think there even was such a thing - just the on-line help). I've used it for everything from designing shop-built tool stands/tables to working out the "draft" subdivision plan to guide my surveyor. "LE" version is only 2D, but that was enough to learn at one time. IMSI is giving this one away on the hopes that you'll eventually upgrade to (and pay for) one of their better, newer products when you're ready.

I would like to eventually get to a CAD/CAM level but that's way down the road. Don't even have the mill or lathe yet!

[WVBill]

I want to design a small shop and possibly a room addition to my house. Will the Punch software generate prints (e.g. blueprints) on a laser printer for framing and foundation? It's not absolutely clear to me from their web site that it will create such prints.

It would appear that Chief Architect will do prints. Maybe that's the difference between a $500 package and a $50 package (??).

[beenthere]

I hear you Pat. Last night I worked through a few pages of the manual, learning about all the symbols that are available (couches, chairs, toilets, bathtubs, sinks, cabinets, and on and on) in 2D and in 3D that can be dragged, placed, resized, locked to a coordinate, and whatever you want. Then everything, like in a room or withing a part, can be grouped together into blocks that can be saved and these blocks grouped together again, I gather this is for bringing back into a drawing at any time in the future. I am looking more at drawing parts and sub assemblies that I dream up for fabricating things. Not so much for house plans, but furniture and cabinetry building for sure. I like the features that allow snapping to a coordinate, or grabbing the line, box, circle, sphere, or rectangle tool and giving the coordinates (x, y, z) and angle to have it drawn to scale. Hopefully I can learn enough of it to be able to use it. But so far it has been fun to play around with, and leave me in awe [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] .

[timb]

(not Pat)

The only thing that bugged me so far on the TurboCAD LE (side comment - now that I think of it, LE has never "crashed" on me, I don't think I even remember finding a bug yet!) is the effects of "precision".

When starting a new drawing you can specify whether you want english/metric, decimal/fractional/archtectural etc., - and the level of precision. However, if I pick say fractional, and a 1/16" level of precision - it didn't work the way I thought. Having done that during set up, I could create two objects, both 1/2" thick that were two different actual sizes - it seemed like it was just the "read out" that "rounds" to the precision set. Eventually I figured out the effect I was looking for had to be handled through the "advanced grid set up" dialog box and setting "snap to grid". Maybe a manual would have helped! Like I said, there's a lot to learn even in a 2D package.

But it was fun just punching in the data from my 50 and 75 year-old written deeds and having the CAD package draw the property map dead-on, including finding an "overlap" of adjacent parcels from two different deeds done decades apart.

The surveyor's team is on the property as I write this, redoing things for a needed subdivision. I used TurboCAD and my deed-based map to "sketch" out a guide for him and the area tool to ensure that the parcels should work out pretty close to the agreed sizes. It will be interesting to see where the coordinates end up this time!

Tim

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I just bought the Broderbund 3.0 brand new in a jewel case for $8.89 delivered to my door using the 'Buy it Now' option on Ebay. I could have possibly saved a whopping $.50 by just going with the opening bid amount then hoping I was the winner but, for half a buck, I figured I'd save the intrigue. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

At under ten bucks I guess I don't think I can get hurt that badly if it isn't something I like. I just wanted to pass this on in case anyone else had an interest but didn't want to invest $40-$50+ in it. Just click here to go to Ebay to buy one. I hope this helps. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Wild Bill, (You still didn't tell me what the "V" stood for...)

You can print to fit the paper, I do 8 1/2 x11 and 8 1/2 x14
or you can print to scale and there is a range of scales, 3 or 4. When you print to scale you get multiple sheets to "mosaic" together. It is a scale drawing of the floor plan (dimensioned in great detail if you choose). In the 3D views of the project you can get a view of the framing that shows rough window openings with headers and of course all the studs for each wall you add. You can set wall thickness to 3-4 standards or custom. Similarly as you add a roof you get rafters. You can do an electrical lalout with outlets, switches, and built in lighting. Yo can do the HVAC with ductwork, grills, furnace, pad mount compressor units, and so forth.

There is a 3D design tool so yo can build sD objects from Great grand dads urn for the mantle to sofas or... There is a fair library of furniture and appliances you can use as is or edit in the 3D design studio.

You have a large inventory of plants and can age them to see how they will look in the future. You can grade the land. You get limited lighting control but it is good enough to support a realistic walk through. Muntons in windows cast shadows appropriately.

You can print out parts of the house which you glue to constructon board and get a scale model of the house.

If you had a large format printer you could probably get single sheet prints of a floorplan.

Working off axis is a pain and a bit clumsy. My garage/shop is 45 degrees CCW from the orientation of the house proper and shares one corner (has a triangular shaped space between the two.) Doing the roof of the garage/shop was not simple doing complex roofing is not simple.

There is a user group and folks submit recipes for doing some stuff. There is an algorythm for dormers worth looking at.

There is a spreadsheet cost estimator bui
lt in. Of course you can do 3D walkthroughs, and you can walk or fly around the outside You can walk through walls but you can't walk up or down stairs. You can set the height of eye for walkthroughs.

The program will do a lot more than I do with it. Like all commercial software, whether Gatesian or otherwise, it isn't perfect and as a professional software engineer and past professor teaching software engineering, I probably criticise it as much as anyone but it is good enough for the $.

I have Chief Architect and the Broderbund offering. I don't use them. I did my mom's house with Chief Architect and it is certainly useable but not as easy to use as Punch Pro.

For anyone getting Punch, log into their website to check for free on-line upgrades.

Hope this wasn't too far off from what was intended.

I am probably going to start over from scratch in PunchPro and do all three floors (basement, ground, and upstairs) in one design file. I can correct several little things at that time. I have some narrow but exceedingly tall wall sections sticking up through the roof but they are impossible to select and delete without working through "shielding" objects/layers to get to them, a real pain.

The worst bug I have found is the wall tool once in a while just won't connect a wall segment where I want it and I have to leave an itsy bitsy gap O T H E R W I S E the tool goes sort of wierd and puts the end of the wall way over somewhere not related at a crazy angle. Oh well, in my class as a senior project for 3-5 students this woiuld be an A+ but for commercial offering it would be A-, compared to autocad or truly professional architecture programs/products, it isn't in the running. Of course the difference of a few K$ explains the gap.

Attachement is blank sample of estimator.

Patrick

[WVBill]

Thanks for the info, Pat.

By the way, the "WVBill" is West Virginia Bill [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Oh, I knew that... I guess my attempt at humor flopped...

You see I thought the W was for WILD and the Bill was for Bill, i.e. Wild Bill but I didn't know what the V was for.
(Varmit, Vagabond, Voracious, Victorious, or what)

Patrick [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. It is getting to 14 tonight and it is snowing now. 2-3 weeks ago it hit 70, I just love variety.