Interesting Article

[JoeR]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If a rodeo horse or steer gets injured even once in it's rodeo lifetime, then that is once too many. It was injured for our enjoyment, and that we should not tolerate.


[/ QUOTE ]

What about children playing little league?

How many times have we watched National Geographic film a lion killing another animal? That was for our enjoyment?

I think the real issue is that we(people in general) may not agree but we should not inflict our will upon others.

I believe the bull fights in Spain are cruel, but I will not tell them they should not practice their culture.

Animals are not human, and they are not our equals. I do not think animals should be abused, but they are entertaining. How many times have you given a cat, catnip? What if the cat fell off a chair after someone gave it catnip and got injured?

Joe R.

[mickymac]

Perhaps we should let the animal decide?

The animals are not abused,'' said Michael Wegher, CEO of the Cow Palace, ``because that's the people's livelihood. Some of those animals are better cared for than some people in the world.''

Hmmm. I can't agree the animals aren't abused ``because that's the people's livelihood. If they are intentionally causing stress and pain for the animals which could otherwise be avoided, well...I think that's abuse. Especially when it's solely for the "entertainment factor." I agree that "Some of those animals are better cared for than some people in the world.'' Now that's sad.


When I say, "Perhaps we should let the animal decide..." there are cases, given a choice, an animal seeks out and enjoys a humans company. Does your cat or dog more often than not come home? I don't think riding a horse "hurts" or causes undue stress or pain for the animal and it often clearly enjoys it's relationship with it's "partner." Does the bull enjoy being riden? The calf roped? What is the purpose? I guess part of the issue would have to do with your definition of "hurt" and how much of that is "intentional" and "acceptable. "

I love the fact we have a system that allows this woman to "questioin" these issues and yes at times "forces" us to look at how we behave. Each of us has this right in our society and I wouldn't want it any other way.

We "choose" to live in a society where the majority rules and there are still inaliable rights for all. Perhaps we should set a part of the World aside where this isn't so, so that others who disagree with this society can go there and live.


Mick

Perhaps we should let the animal decide?

If that's the fact then forget about food, medicine, clothing, research, hunting, etc. Basically everything that animals give us. Who are you or this wacko pita lady to tell me how to live my life? Our whole lives are based around the management of living things, with animals being a huge part of this. Any wild animal would love to have you for lunch so let's just let them decide.

This is so ridiculous. If you're going to let the cows decide then you surely must let the lions, tigers, sharks, cougars, etc. decide as well. They would love to have you for lunch and to get the heck off of their land.

We have to manage animals how we see fit. If one person wants to use dogs to hunt pheasants or something else. Good for him. If another person wants to use a horse for roping and cattle for roping, good for him. If another person wants a cat for a companion, good for them. If a person wants to raise cattle and butcher them, good for them. If a person wants to raise sheep and shear them for the wool and butcher for the meat, good for them.

Good for everyone that does something with animals. There's a huge difference between using animals for our enjoyment and livelihood and abusing them. As long as you don't abuse the animals it's none of your business what I do and it's none of my business what you do. These busy bodies that try and tell me what to do and tell you what to do there is no place for.

Animals are not people. They rely solely on instincts. Why do you think a horse allows itself to be trained? It's because we train him to be. If a horse was truly smart and a thinking animal there is no way we would ever ride them or make them do what we want. All they would have to do is figure out that they are superior to us and there isn't a dang thing we could to do to change that. Same way with a cow. If they were truly a logical and thinking animal they wouldn't even run so that they could be roped. Yes animals are smart but they certainly have no higher cognition even close to what humans are.

[Al_Wa]

Doc,

Rest assured there is a silent majority out here that strongly supports your view on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to express this view.

Thanks Al. I wonder how these people would feel if I started an initiative to ban soccer in kids under 18. Soccer has way more injuries than rodeo ever thought of having. These injuries are to kids that do grow up to be logical thinking adults. Alot of these kids are pushed ridiculously by their parents and at the ages of 5 and up. I know for a fact alot of these kids don't have a choice to play or not. Some of the dirty play that I see and hear about is just plain ridiculous. Then go to a game and watch these parents. They make a bull in a rodeo look like a creampuff. But hey violence, rage, hate, dirty play, alot of injuries, and poor sportsmanship are ok in soccer but rodeo is bad. I really wonder about where people have their priorities. Amazing how many people live in glass houses.

[Ridgerunner_WVa]

I agree....you have the same thing in football and baseball,and boxing.

[earthmother]

I agree with the kids in sports thing. As a nurse I've seen too many kids injured, some severely and permanantly, by sports. I think we should allow kids to be kids, and not push them into anything they are not ready for, or because we, as the parents, have this hang up about our kids being better than yours.

As far as animals go- I think an animal should be killed if it's attacking you. That's self defence!! I would do the same for a person. I also think animals should be used for food, if that's your thing. No - we are not vegetarians, although we had been at some point. I like steak just as much as the next person. The point is about our relationship with animals. It's sad that some people feel that they have to be entertained by having an animal abused or scared and confused by our actions. As far as watching a lion kill a zebra on TV for enterainment, you're comparing apples and oranges. That lion is killing for food. Not to see, who in the pride can do it better! I just hope that some day, and it probably won't be in my lifetime, that we have respect for our fellow creatures ( yes- humans are animals- Not vegetable or mineral) and live in harmony with them, and ourselves. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I think you are sorely missing the point. I don't know of anyone on this earth that has more respect for animals than ranchers and cowboys. Just because things are done different than the way you grew up doesn't mean there isn't respect there. Riding a bucking horse is no different than riding a tame horse. It's still riding. How do you know a horse likes it any better making a living bucking 8 seconds 100 times a year or getting ridden for 30 minutes to 2 hours 100 time a year? As far as cattle go they are very well taken care of. Like I've said they get roped a few times and then are given the best feed and shelter available. Hardly abuse and hardly a lack of respect. If you aren't a rancher and you aren't a cowboy then you really don't know what goes on. Watching from the sidelines is one thing but actually living it is quite another thing. You have no idea what is going through the guys mind or the animals.

Seriously what do you think is worse. 1. A cow that spends it's whole life, about a year, in a feedlot to be slaughtered with a 1000 other head of cattle. 2. A rodeo steer that gets great feed and is kept inside most of the time with only about 20 other cattle. Is used for 2 - 3 years and then usually gets sent for meat. Really not much difference either way. The rodeo steer actually will get better treatment, less confinement, great feed, and live a year or two longer.

I could understand if there was abuse but there just isn't. If a steer or a calf is ever caught wrong the cowboys don't go ahead and rope them. They just let them go. The animals aren't hurt. Sure once in awhile an accident happens but accidents are just a part of life period.

[Hayseed]

As usual, you hit the nail on the head, doc. I agree but just don't have the knack for putting my thoughts into words. Thanks for saying what I would have said if I had the ability to do so...

[RichZ]

As my wife (Earthmother) said there are good rodeos and bad, like anything else. I know Richard (Cowboydoc), and I know he would not be part of anything where an animal was abused. But that's not to say it doesn't happen in some rodeos.

Richard, didn't you tell me once that there is some orignization that certifies rodeos for things such as safety and treatment of animals? I seem to remeber that. I think some sort of oversight is always good.

As the saying goes, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." If people see a "bad" rodeo, they think that's what they're all like.

For example, I've heard things said about abuse of cows on dairy farms. That is probably true in some, but certainly not in all. I have a friend who is a dairy farmer, and his cows are extremely well treated. They even return to their stalls after being milked on their own. They spend most of each day in a pasture. And when their production gets low, he puts them out to pasture permanently. He feels that they've produced milk for him for years, and made him money, and they earn their "retirement". I don't think his cows are mistreated, but some people who were uninformed might say they were. There are always good and bad.