value of timber

[EJB]

Hi guys.

A question: I have a lot of land that I would like to selectively log and also I'd like to generate some cash.

I'd like to do it myself so I can be very selective and careful about disrupting the woods too much.

My question is this: how much value do I add to a given tree/log by cutting it down myself and dragging it out to where it can be easily picked up by a logging truck?

In other words, if a given tree is worth "X" on the stump, how much more than "X" would I be able to get if I did everthing except deliver to the yard?

Another question, you know those logging trucks (the 14 wheeler size, not the 18 wheeler size), ballpark estimate, how much is a truckload of hemlock/pine worth? Trying to get a ballpark estimate of how mny trees I would need to process in order to generate a given amount of cash. Ideally I'd like to harvest just enough each year to pay my property taxes...

Thanks guys. I knmow that the estimates/prices are going to vary according to region and other factors...just looking for some guidelines to think about.

[Gatorboy]

This may or may not help, but these sites explains how to figure out measuring your trees into a factor you can later use if/when you find out some timber value numbers.

Methods for Estimating Timber Volume and Value of Pine Trees

Before You Sell Your Timber

[beenthere]

""dragging it out to where it can be easily picked up by a logging truck?""

I would first find out who you can get to pick them up with the logging truck, and ask them how much they are paying for logs piled by the 'road'. Maybe it is not the logging trucker, but a local sawmill that will be buying the logs. Or go directly to the sawmill.

The local sawmill may not want to buy logs that have been dragged through the mud and dirt, and prefer them being carried out of the woods. If so, that will affect the price you can get.

Also, they will know that they have you by the short hair if you have a pile of logs at the road, and are wanting them to buy them - knowing that because they are now cut and stacked, they are a perishable item (just like an apple in the store). Best to get a contract price up front and have the logs sold before you put all that work into getting them down and out.

If a sawmill is getting all the logs they want, the price they pay for additional logs isn't always the best price around. It may force you to hire the logging trucker to load the logs and take them to a local or non-local mill that will want that species and pay a better price.

You should learn a bit about scaling the logs (estimating their volume) and a bit about grading them for quality. You may drag logs out that do not pay their way in a mill, and end up making all the hard work into firewood. These desicions are usually made in the woods, and the sellers don't like to see those below-marginal logs laying in the woods after the logger leaves. But if it costs $35/MBF to saw the logs, and their is only $25/MBF worth of lumber (product), it doesn't pay.

[jsnitzer]

A guy up here (NY) advertised in the paper for folks needing green rough sawn lumber. When he had enough customers, he hauled the logs to the road and another guy with a portable sawmill sawed them up. Customers picked up the wood themselves - good deal all around! Built my garage!

[beenthere]

That certainly is an interesting concept for marketing timber. Raises the questions of how the customer knows what quality he is going to get, how to price the lumber, and how to specify the sizes wanted.

Can you share any of the particulars with us?

If I were to spec out the lumber for a garage, I would want to, at minimum, specify standard and better grade for dimension lumber, and the green sizes (thickness and width) and variation that I would accept. Also, how much wane (bark) I would allow along an edge. Much of the volume in a log will not meet these specs, so what happens to the rest of the log?

Am wondering if the man with the portable mill has a cutting order that he fills, and it is up to him to make the quality decisions and the sorts into grades of lumber needed. If you know how this works, please share with us.

[pbenven]

There's a guy around here that has a portable mill on his lot. His price is by species and it is so ridiculously low - you just can't get it anywhere else for less. Latest price I heard was 50 cents a foot for hemlock, widths varying from 8 to 12 inches.

[jsnitzer]

Don' t know much about lumber grades. My (20 X 40 foot) garage is reverse board and batten so asked for 1x12 and 1x4 pine ten feet long. I actually got boards from 1 to 1-1/4 inch thick and a couple of inches over length. Width was a little wider than nominal also.

All of my boards were square - no open knots or bark/wane. Very good lumber - ordered a little extra and after it dried a year it planed up into really nice boards (wish I had ordered more). I think I paid about $0.40 per board foot, which seems the local rate. He had cut extra boards so that I could cull out any bad boards, but I took them all.

All green, rough cut and I nailed them up green - dry by now!

At the roadside lumber 'yard' a big pile of slabs, so there was a lot of waste, like you said. I took a couple of slabs and made nice benches! Gues he sold them for firewood.

Did this all over the phone without meeting the guy, but later met him at the site. He was logging a big blowdown and taking most of the logs to a sawmill about 70 miles away, just picking up a little extra money on this side business. He even got his truck and loaded up the last half of my lumber and brought it over to the house and stacked/stickered it, then left the final bill sitting on the top. Nice to deal on a handshake basis!

He put an ad in the local paper and took the orders, then left it up to the sawmill guy to cut the boards from the logs he dragged out. Looked like they leaned over backward to give good quality. Would do it again if I needed to buy lumber, but don't know how they made out from the selling side.

[rozett]

The Maine Forestry Service publishes 'stumpage' prices for the state. Maybe Mass. has a similar report. stumpage

This will give you the average price paid for timber by species. And FYI... hemlock isn't worth much.

Some of the comments already in this thread are correct. It takes a trained eye to judge the quality of the timber. You can lose a lot of $$ but not cutting the logs correctly. Dragging the timber is not good. Skidders lift the money end of the timber and drag it on the ends that they cut off. Having a connection with the mills is very important. Most mills specialize in specific timber, so you would need to deal with several. And what are you going to do with all the slash? There will be a lot of it.

I recently finished clearing 5 acres of timber for pasture and orchard. My first suggestion would be to talk to a Consulting Forester. You can hire them to "manage" your timber sale. For a ten percent cut of the gross, they will mark the trees to be removed, find the 'best' deal with a timber cutter to cut and haul the timber, review all of the yard slips and tally up the sale. In my case, I hired him to write a Forest Management Plan (the state of maine will reimburse 50% of the cost) and to manage the sale for the 5 acres. During the winter I will have him manage the thinning (per his plan) of the other 90 acres.

I did a lot of reading and in the end, realized that I didn't know what I didn't know. I felt much better after hiring the forester.

[Argee]

I had one area of my property selectively logged about 2 years ago. If you have the ability to skid the logs out, by all means go for it. Pick a landing area where a log truck can get in an out of relatively easy. Talk to the log truck operator as to how he would like them arranged as to ease in loading. He can also tell you which mills are buying and what they're looking for. Some mills take only hardwoods such as oak and maple, while others take poplar and many softwoods.

My case was a storm that blew a lot of poplars down (about 200). Rather than leave them on the forest floor to rot, I decided to have them and many standing ones skidded out to open up the woods for maple and oak proliferation. (Also to cut off the beavers food supply) I split 50-50 with the logger. He did all the work and hired the logging trucks to haul them. Made out pretty well and had plenty of tops left over to cut up into campfire wood to sell to campers who drive by my place.

[idaho04]

I'd go to www.forestryforum.com, or www.woodweb.com, sawing/drying forums with these Qs.