Toilets in unheated spaces.

[jwstewar]

May not be the most cost efficient way, but you could use submersible fish aquarium tank heaters. You could get something like a 15 watt that is designed for 10 gallon aquariums and turn it down to its lowest level. Could have one in the tank and one in the bowl itself. Would still allow the tank to function as normal - but would probably want to remove the one from the bowl prior to ...... uh .... use. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[egon]

Pat:
Your idea using the copper tubing would be very effective.Perhaps fill it with a very low slump concrete product after the heat tape is installed. This will aid in the transfer of heat by eliminating the air boundary layer.

Another concept may be to apply heat tape to the outside of the bowl and tank, then build a form around them and fill it with foamed in insulation. You could make this look quite nice. Use the heat tape that has the built in thermostat. I don't know what it is called but am sure it is available.

Now the final sugesstion would be a thunder pole placed outside with a surrounding tarp for privacy. Add some nice soft, fine dried grass for the final definative touch. The grass is definetly better than the other purchased products as there have been several cases out at the farm where nessesity required it's use.

Egon

[Pat]

jwstewar, Yet another good idea that I didn't think of yet. I guess I'm accomplishing about the same thing with my copper tubing. One piece is in the tank (exiting from a cut out on the rim in back so the tank lid still goes on) and another piece in the bowl, both sharing the same heater strip. Less than a foot of heater strip is "wasted" in the air between the two pieces of tubing.

The aquarium heaters I am familiar with are in glass tubes like a big cheap test tube so I guess I'm less likely to have an accident with my scrap tubing. I am ashamed that I didn't think of the aquarium heater. I once designed and built a blood sample incubator to replace an aquarium heater in an aquarium as a way to incubate (accurately control temp) of a blood sample prior to "reading" the sample in an ultra-violet spectrophotometer of my design. So I have seen aquarium heaters used for other than keeping fish happy AND STILL I DIDN"T RECALL IT!

Pat

[jwstewar]

You are correct in your comment about the aquarium heaters being a little fragile. I think you probably have the best solution given you still want it to be usable, but none the less at this point I think we are kinda "brainstorming" for ideas that would work. Hadn't seen that one suggested so I thought I would throw it out since rarely does it happen here or TBN that someone hasn't already suggested my thoughts.

Jim

[Pat]

jwstewar, Consider this: You posses/exhibit Extra Sensory Projection. Like "regular" ESP but in reverse. You powerfully project ideas which may be picked up by some others. The aquarium heater was a great suggestion and if I hadn't had the heater tape and scrap tubing I would have considered it. NO reason you can't take the "guts" out of the fragile glass container and put them in a more robust enclosure (minding the need for electrical insulaltion and isolation but avoiding thermal insulation and having a dandy solution.

Patrick (with 20 degrees F this morning but returning to at least the 50's soon.)

[Stoneheartfarm]

<font color="blue"> fill it with foamed in insulation </font color>

Spray foam? Would that work? I've been kind of afraid to use it near heat sources primarily beacuse I'm not sure of fire hazard, and due to concern about off gassing.

Heat tapes have had a pretty bad reputation around here over the years. For awhile they were touting a "heat cable" as a safer alternative to heat tapes. But, it's been a few years since I investigated, and things change so darn fast!

If I recall correctly, the primary problem with heat tapes was that people were improperly installing them, running them constantly and never checking to make sure the tape's insulation was still solid. I have seen a lot of old heat tapes still wrapping pipes in crawl spaces. Usually, the insulation has rotted to the point where it comes off if you touch it. Apparently the constant heat breaks down the insulation.

So, while I believe heat tape will work, I would want to leave a method to inspect/repair/replace the tape if necessary.

SHF

[jwstewar]

One question I thought of last night. I don't know the answer and don't know if any one else does or not. What would happen if your copper tube would slip or fall into the water up to the point where the heat tape were submersed. I'm assuming the insulation would hold up, but I don't know. Just a question or thought.

[Pat]

JWSTEWAR, I thought of that and the first two ideas that came to mind were: 1. bend the tube into a U shape with one side of the U in the water and the other in the air with thte heat tape on it and 2. use a tube long enough so that when it is in the tank as far/deep as it can go the heat tape is not wet. Both seemed OK but I went with the U bend which looked to be a better choice for my length of scrap copper tube and aesthetics.

You'd have to purposely put it in the water as it would have to defy gravity to get there on its own. A brief dunking should not be disastrous as some folks ignore the mfg warnings and imerse them. I didin't want to take a chance on a long term violation of the instructions.

Pat