Toilets in unheated spaces.

[hazmat]

How about an electric baseboard heater set to 45 or 50 degrees? No need for the er "heated seat:" WVBill was kind enough to point out.

Another option is to let it freeze, but to put an "expansion joint" in the bowl & tank. A small 16 oz plastic soda bottle with a little wieght in it so it is 75% submerged. When the water freezes, the bottle will crush & hopefully the commode won't crack. This type of system is used in pool skimmers to winterize them. The bigger bottle you can fit in there, the deeper freeze it will hold up to.

[I_am_the_walrus]

Toilets in unheated places...

Thats what we call an outhouse here in West Virginia.... [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[bgott]

I don't know if I'd use any automotive antifreeze that will end up in a sewer system or a septic. If I remember correctly, propylene glycol, which is the antifreeze used in Sierra, is just as poisonous as ethylene glycol antifreeze. It just tastes nasty so animals won't drink it like they will drink ethylene glycol.

[Pat]

Gary, In my small drafty uninsulated metal siding well house, last winter I did what you are suggesting and it works good. I wrapped some heater tape around my pressure tank and covered it with insulation. In the shop's bathroom as I have already implemented the scrap copper/heater tape solution, I could take 1/2 of your suggestion and put some insulation around the tank. If this were out in the wind, that would really be a good thing but inside the shop the insulation would not make such a dramc difference. The delta T is not too big with a control temp of
38 F. I don't think inhsulaltion would save enough electricity to pay for the materials and hassle of installation. Using heater tape with 12-15 watt consumption with a thermostat so it only runs as required is pretty thrifty and it would be easy to spend more in time materials enhancing it than the enhancements would save.

Of course, if this were Minot ND and the shop's bathroom was drafty, insulalting the tank over the heater tape would be a great idea and could make the difference between success and a broken tank.

Pat (NOT IN ND)

[Pat]

Nix the heater in a shop that is occupied a low percent of the time but the plastic bottle idea is great! That is a real elegant solution! It isn't applicable to my situation but that doesn't detract from its being a neat and clever idea.

I would find it hard to flush the toilet with the water in the tank frozen. If I didn't need thte toilet to operate, I could just turn off its service valve and drain it. If I wasn't so lazy I could do that between uses but might get a complaint from my wife about privation.

Pat

[Pat]

KooKooKachoo

Please, next time light a couple matches before you leave!

Pat

[hazmat]

<font color="blue"> I would find it hard to flush the toilet with the water in the tank frozen. If I didn't need the toilet to operate </font color>

What you want to use the toilet? I thought we were simply protecting it from freezing [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Ah well, have to go to rev B on that idea. You may want to conisder adding the bottle to the tank as a fail safe. Only costs you $.05 for the bottle redemtion in case the heat pipe breaks. Plus saves 1/2 cup of water per flush [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Mike_Dumond]

Pat, that sounds like one major problem. Unfortunately, not an easy one to solve. Your heater placed in the tank will keep the tank from freezing, but won't help the bowl. Only way to extent the protection to the bowl, is to reset the float level in the tank so that a little water is always running into the bowl.

The plastic soda bottle in the tank and bown will fail on two counts. 1st, it won't protect the trap at the bottom of the bowl. 2nd, and most important, when nature calls, and you need to pull a bottle out of the frozen bowl, you're still left with a frozen bowl, and well, the ummm, the operation of said frozen bowl won't quite be up to expectations.

Heating the bathroom as a whole is probably the safest method, but like the heat tape, not the cheapest. My official suggestion, (based on 20 years of experience), a chemical toilet for the winter months.

[jsnitzer]

How about fixing the toilet so that it leaks a little, constantly running a little bit of water into the tank and into the bowl and then out. Will keep it from freezing and can't get more low maintenance and low tech than that! [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[pbenven]

Hey, how about a small hot water tank with a ball valve between the tank and the toilet? When you gotta go, just open the ball valve so the toilet fills. Once it fills, shut the valve. Flush and the toilet is empty again. I'n not sure how low you can set an electric water heater, but you wouldn't need anything more than the minimum.

Of course the problem now moves to insulating the water tank, but I don't think that would be very difficult. Another valve to empty the line would probably be a good idea too.