Water Pressure -- Is there a norm?

[Clint]

My wife and I just bought a little place on some acreage. The water pressure is really low. Our neighbor said to turn up the pressure at the pressure tank. He said that his is set to about 30 psi. Before I even touched ours it was set to 70 psi (on the guage near the pressure tank). At 70 psi, the flow inside is very low. I have cleaned all of the faucet screens of mineral deposits, but the flow is still low.

At the kitchen sink the flow rate is 1 gl/ 52 sec. Is this about right? Any info, web site links etc would be appreciated.

Mr and Mrs Previous owner knew absolutely nothing about the well besides depth 170' and that they thought they bought the next to the largest pump. They've been wrong on a lot of their other info so who knows.

Thanks

Clint

[Hayseed]

How old are the water lines? Do you have a spigot near the well where you could check how long it takes to fill a gallon jug there? If your tank is set at 70 psi and you have very little water pressure in the house it could be that your lines are plugged up with mineral deposits. Is there any place between the well and the house where you can access a water line? If so you could break a connection or cut into it if it is PVC and inspect it to see if there is mineral build up inside. If your lines are plugged with minerals that would explain the low water pressure inside the house.

[CJDave]

This might be a good time to invest in a simple test setup. Buy a water pressure gauge and then attach it to a garden hose adapter so you can connect the gauge to a faucet. Attach the test setup and note the pressure with everything not flowing any water. Then open a few taps in the house and see what happens to the gauge pressure. If the gauge pressure drops like a rock, there is a constriction somewhere. By checking available faucets all the way to the pump, you may be able to isolate the problem. I almost feel sheepish [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] asking this, but did you check under the sinks and see that the cut-off cocks are full open or at least several turns? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Normally, domestic water pressure is no more than fifty pounds; forty-five even better. You can get a lot of slamming from washing machine valves and from dishwasher valves and possibly pop a hose with the higher pressures. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Sometimes by LISTENING while a lot of water is flowing, you can hear water blasting past a piping restriction, be it a partially closed valve or a collapsed pipe. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[edt]

Hi Clint another thing to check is a strainer set up one may have been installed in the line to catch and large deposits we install them at work all the time. They are inline they have a screen in them. also i have hads a problem with small rocks in the lines due to pipe breaks in the ground had to cut out clean out and reinstall new good luck
EDT

[pbenven]

I'm a little confused. Our pressure tank (bladder) is set to 18 pounds, which I believe is standard for these things. The pump pressure switch closes at around 30 and opens at around 55.

The tank with the bladder inside is used to smooth out the pressure at the faucet. Ideally, you shouldn't be able to tell when the pump kicks on at the faucet. Is this what you mean by pressure tank?

[BrianP]

70 PSI should be all you'll ever need, and 1 Gal in 52 seconds sounds mighty weak. What do you get directly off the pressure tank? Pressure and flow are two different things, however. A good pressure should give you a good flow if nothing is preventing it and your tank is big enough.

Because your pressure measurement is at the tank, diagnosing the problem is a little more complex. What is the pressue when the water is running (full on) at the sink? If it drops fairly quickly (causing the pump to come on) you probably need to repressurize your tank. You see, water won't pressurize so its the air inside the tank that makes the pressure. If there is only a quart of air, then you'll get a couple of quarts of water out before the pressure drops to nothing.

If it is an old tank, which typically looks like a cast iron thing, thats a likely cause. These 'drown' and have to be pressurized quite frequently. You need to practically drain out the water, close the water valves, and pump air in to somewhere around 30 to 70 PSI. Basically the tank should be about 1/2 full of air. New tanks (which usually look like fat propane tanks) have an air bladder and don't have to be repressurized usually, but if they do (for example if the air valve leaked) the procedure is more or less the same. If you have an old style tank, find an excuse to replace it with a new one.

Downstream from the tank (i.e. towards the faucet) check every valve and make sure they are open all the way. If you know how to solder, consider replacing all of the valves with ball valves - they restrict the flow much less when open, usually don't leak, and you can easily tell if they are open.

Look for any filters. Usually these are downstream from the tank. Replace any filter elements and make sure nobody did something brilliant like install a filter with a 3/8" pipe opening onto a 1/2 water pipe. I've seen it done - in fact many filters with 3/4" fittings have only a 1/2 hole in them, which restricts the water flow by 50% to 75%.

I put two filters in parralel with a bypass system to make the cartriges easier to replace. Looks like a plumber's nightmare but it works good.

Of course, the pipe (especially from the tank) could be blocked, perhaps by calcium due to hard water, and that would entail replacement. The only way I know of checking that is cutting the pipe and having a look. you can easily solder it back together with a coupler (if you know how to solder).

Otherwise, follow the pipe and look for valves, filters, and anything else (such as a crushed pipe) which could be the culprit. I learnt a lot about poor water flow from a good well in my first country house. My current system is nothing magical (1" pipe from well to tank, 3/4" to filters, softener, and distribution, and 1/2 to each bathroom, hose, etc.) and I have loads and loads of water, so it should be the same for you.

Good luck and tell us what you find.

[Stoneheartfarm]

With 70 pounds of pressure, you flat out should be moving more water than you are.

How far is the well from the house? Are we talking several hundered feet all of which is uphill, or is it real close? Is the pump submerged, or in a well pit/house/basement? What kind of plumbing do you have, hard/soft copper, PVC, etc? And what diameter is the plumbing?

I've seen people plumb with some pretty strange pipe. When we were getting ready to do our plumbing here, I looked into solar pumps. One of the suggestions for solar pumps is to use plumbing that is one size larger than normal. In other words, use 1" where you would normally use 3/4", etc. The theory is that the larger diameter allows for more water to flow while requiring less pressure to provide the same quantity of water. Therefore, you can set the pump/tank pressure lower which is easier on a solar pump.

Do you have the same flow rate all through the house? Or just at one faucet?

SHF

[Mike_Dumond]

Morning all. 1st point of info, pressure tanks. Set the air pressure at 2 lbs below your kick in pressure. pbenven, yours should be at 28. The idea of checking water quanity closer to the pump is a good idea. The biggest problems with flow rates are: 1, An inline filter that is blocked. (This is the one you want to see) or 2, older houses using galvanized piping. (This is the one you don't want to see) If you have the galvanized pipes, and they've been there any amount of time, it's guaranteed that the inner diameter has decreased. I've seen some 1/2 inch pipe that had less than 1/16th left. The only way to solve this problem is to replace the piping with copper. Make sure your main house feed from the tank is 3/4, with 1/2 lines running from it.

If someone comes along and suggests flushing the lines with acid, stay away from it. While it might help for a bit, it does leave acid residue imbedded in the lines, and the problem is only going to be fixed for a short while. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but changing the pipes is the only sure way to solve this problem.

[turnkey4099]

Just an add-on to Mikes. He is correct, the bladder pre-charge (done with the tank empty) is set to about 2psi below the pump cut-in pressure.

Proper pressure setting for normal systems is 20psi between cut in/out, Almost all residential systems will be set 30/50 or 40/60 rarely 50/70 as above 60psi it is beginning to cause excess wear on fixtures.

If you have an old, non-bladder, galvanised tank, my choice is to replace it with a bladder type. It just isn't worth it to me to be fiddling with draining/recharging the old tanks.
The problem under discussion IMO is for sure blocked pipes.

Someone said to replace with copper. Again IMHO plastic is better all around; cheaper, will accept a bit of freezing, no problems with galvanic corrosion, won't pin-hole, etc.

Harry K

[Clint]

Thanks all for the info.

Sorry I haven't gotten back to provide info sooner -- finals are getting in the way of my internet time.

I haven't measured the flow near the tank or the well. To answer some of the questions posed: the
pump is submerged, piping is all PVC, the distance from the well to the house is about 150' - slight
downhill, no filters of any sort, and yes the spigots under all of the sinks are wide open.

As far as recharging the tank. I am assuming there's a schrader valve and if I understand correctly
there should be about 2 lbs less air than the pump turn on pressure (e.g., if the pump is to come on
at 30 psi, the tank should have 28 psi) is this correct?

We live in Oklahoma and the water has a lot of minerals so I am starting to think this may be the
problem.

I'll measure output at the tank and post the results. The well head is capped and I haven't seen a
way to hook a hose directly to it, so to my knowledge I can't test the pressure there.

Thanks again for the info.

Clint.