About 3x what we paid a year ago for a vinyl "makeover" for one of the rentals. We did most of the prep ourselves, repairing rotten wood in a few spots, etc. Think it was about $3800. Keep in mind this was economy siding, (bottom or 1 step up from bottom) and we were going over masonite siding so it was basicly already a flat surface.
OK, I see the reason for leaving the old siding. I had the roof stripped when it was done because I never liked the look of a roof-over, besides they seem to blow off more during the heavy winds we get around here on occasion. If the best practice is to leave the old on, that is fine. My siding is a bit wavy to the windward with a few minor bad spots but other than that it looks ok. If I figured $200 per sq. (up from your $125) that would be $2600 for the labor and $1300 for the siding(almost double the cost you mentioned). Lets add another $100 per square for J channel and trim ($1300), and $100 per square for insulation. I'll even throw in $100 a square for coffee breaks and warming their fingers. This all totals $7800, more what I had figured it would cost from the start. Thanks for the figures Argee.
If you can do it yourself, you can save some cost, but you will have no one to complain at, and vinyl siding does have a few small tricks.
You could also go to a cheaper grade of siding. Your numbers sound about right. Alot depends on the amount of channel that is needed. Generally, I've found that the siding is relatively inexpensive. It's the channel that eats you alive.
Another estimate from a local top rated company. 20k to do the job. That includes removing the old right down to the existing Tyvek wrap that they claim does not breath very well. They will not put theirs over the old stuff. Their top of line is really great looking product that is installed with a breathable white foam backing about an inch thick that conforms to the shape of the siding giving it a solid look and feel. I just don't have the money to do it that way at this time and probably would not be satisfied with anything else [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] after seeing this.
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That includes removing the old right down to the existing Tyvek wrap that they claim does not breath very well. They will not put theirs over the old stuff.
If I understand what you said, the claim is that the Tyvek does not breath very well, and they won't put their siding over the Tyvek? But they only will remove everything down to the Tyvek? Something smells fishy about this company. Who removes the Tyvek? I certainly would not allow someone to remove the Tyvek (which does allow moisture out, but is a wind break and won't allow moisture in) from my house.
They do remove the Tyvek, I guess I was not clear in that statement. The company claims it is the best of a bad system (wrapping) but can trap moisture in the walls between the insulation vapor barrier and the wrap. Not being a builder or hobbyist, I am not familiar with these materials but understand the theory. I do know that in the early 70's there was much experimentation with insulation, wraps, heating systems etc..due to the fake energy shortage and a moratorium on the use of natural gas (figure that one out, I had to have oil [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] installed in my house during an oil "crisis"). This contractor claims the blue and the pink insulating foam board used under most siding materials these days does not breath either, but they will use it if requested to. Their material is a white foam that resembles that of the old foam coolers and is supposed to let moisture seep through eventually. I comes in both flat panels as well as sculpted to accommodate the contour of the chosen siding if you want to go the extra 2k expense for it.
Well, I would suggest doing some research into that question about the wrap and those siding peoples comments. I don't think they are correct. It will be up to you to check it out or take their word for it.
This site may help for starters. The way I understand it, it is true that the foam insulation stops moisture movement, which is the very reason Tyvek wrap and similar wraps was invented.
Believe me, I am not taking the word of these salesmen, but it makes me think when one says it is best to go over the old siding and the other says it is best to remove it. Granted the removal job is more expensive but the siding is better quality and so is the backing. I think they are both too high at this point. I have more or less just begun this project, it may be a year before I decide what to do. My company is in turmoil and I may have to relocate (or not), not have a job (or will) but will not know for sure until next year at the latest. Then there is the possibility of wanting to take a better position somewhere in New England if one should arise. So I am in no hurry and that is what I expressed to these siding people. I have yet to hear from the Mennonite builders, they are extremely busy so it will take some time to line them up.
Some of your pricing is area specific, and is based on the wages and labor charges for your area.
When I built my house, I also heard the stories about Tyvek. Which is why I went with OC Pink wrap. It appears to basically be the same stuff (used pop bottles), but is woven like a place mat, allowing plenty of places for moisture to exit. Over top of that, we placed 1/4 inch of fan fold pink board. The siders are right that pink and blue boards do not breathe well. OC describes pink board as "Hydrophobic".
If I understand it right, the idea behind the wrap covered by fanfold is this-- moisture penetrating the wall of a house will pass through the house wrap, hitting the back side of the fanfold. There it will condense and run harmlessly down between the wrap and fanfold without causing damage to either the structure or the siding. It was explained to me that you put foam on the exterior of the house to keep the sheating and wall warmer so that moisture in the wall will not freeze until it has passed all the way through. Apparently, there is (or was) some problem with moisture entering the wall, and not completely passing through before freezing. (Then when spring comes, the frost thaws out and runs down inside the wall.)
As far as cost. Locally, a 1x4x8 sheet of Pink board is about $10-11.00. Or, I can go to the local foam store and buy heavy weight, construction rated, bead board for about $5-6.00 per sheet. Bead board is R rated based on weight. The heavier it weighs per cubic foot, the higher the R rating. As with all insulation, R is measured at 75 degrees or so and will change as temperature goes up or down. Lower temperature increases the R on foam and decreases the R on fiberglass. If I recall correctly, it is the opposite for higher temperatures. Also, if I understand it right, the heavier the weight of beadboard (higher R), the less likely it is to pass moisture. (It will still pass some, just not as much.)
If you want to check it out a little bit more, go to Owens-Corning's website. They have a lot of homeowner information and there is a calculator to tell you the recommended R values for your locality, ceiling type and heating type. (After calculating all that, I added insulation over their recommendation, going instead to the level for a colder region. I too remember the 70's [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ).
My understanding of Tyvek is that it is a vapor barrier. Its
not a moisture barrier. The other wraps are the same. Now
this is good for letting the house breath the moisture from
the inside of the house OUT. But it does not keep the water
from getting IN. Siding leaks water. Even brick leaks water.
What one needs is called a drain plane behind the siding.
Tyvek is not a drain plane. 15 or 30 pound felt can be used
as a drain plane.
I think there is going to be a lot of lawsuits one of these days
against the house wrap industry. But they also seem to have
a lot of legaleze in their warrenty and blame the installers.
The last time I checked Tyvek wanted the wrap installed with
the nails with the big washers. How many houses have you
seen wrapped and stabbled. How is a stable doing to keep
out water? Water is what kills houses...
My house spec to my builder is 2 layers of 15# felt or one
layer of 30#. I'm leaning more to the w layer.....
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