Gun Cleaning

[Alan_L_Texas]

Should a handgun, 22 rifle, and/or shotgun be cleaned every time you shoot them? I like to go out and plunk with my guns on weekends, sometimes only shooting a few rounds with my 357 magnum revolver (ammo expensive!!). Cleaning is no big deal, but wonder if the gun sitting there uncleaned for weeks after shooting maybe 20 rounds is harmful to it.

Would just cleaning the barrell be sufficient, and maybe giving a thorough cleaning a couple of times a year be sufficient?

I've got this oil in my gun cleaning kit. What do you oil? Everything that moves? Of course I know a light coat on bluing is a good idea, but my revolver is nickel plated.

[Ranchman]

<font color="blue"> Should a handgun, 22 rifle, and/or shotgun be cleaned every time you shoot them? </font color>

You'll get different folks who will make different claims - some "yes," some "no", and with fervent feelings behind their opinion. The military folks will say one thing, your bench rest shooters will say another, and, of course different arms are known for requiring constant cleaning to remain reliable. (Can we say Vietnam era M-16 fiasco anyone?)

Short answers to your questions, based on my opinion are as follows:

No - it is not necessary to completely clean the firearm after every session, other than using an oily rag to wipe off finger prints.

No - I wouldn't recommend cleaning the barrel every time as excessive cleaning can often lead to more problems than are solved (e.g. damaging crowns, chamber, rifling, etc from inappropriate cleaning methods.)

Yes - a "good cleaning" a couple of times a year is often sufficient for most firearms. Of course this may increase or decrease based on use throughout the year.

No - Do not place oil on every joint, pivot, catch, etc. Oil, while lubricating, also attracts dirt which can cause all sorts of problems (e.g. functioning, wear, etc.) Use a very thin oil on critical functioning points where necessary and just wipe everything else down with an oily rag, simply to offer a very thin layer of protection without attracting grit &amp; grime.

Again, don't be surprised if others come up with different "you should do this" answers than I have presented above. There are obviously different variables that would affect what I said above, which are more "rule of thumb" type recommendations.

Here's a few other things to think about when it comes to cleaning....

Corrosive primers
Basically where the most harm from not cleaning a gun can come from. Such primers (most commonly found in Berdan primed surplus ammo) uses Potassium Chlorate. When it ignites, it turns to Potassium Chloride and is very corrosive. There are also problems associated with primers that use fulminate of mercury.

None of the new production ammo made by any of the US companies out there use either compound, and personally, although some overseas manufacture stuff does use Berdan primers (instead of Boxer), I've yet to see any sold that is non-surplus that is corrosive.

If you do shoot corrosive ammo, the "should I clean" question immediately becomes an "Absolutely!" (You shouldn't have to worry about this with your .357, .22 or shotgun.) Chrome lined barrels help one in avoiding some problems (such as found on the SKS), but it doesn't mean one shouldn't clean the gun (especially with semi-autos, as the combustion gases/particulates enter lots of areas and are actually used to actuate cycling of the bolt.)

Fouling
Lead bullets foul barrels more quickly than jacketed, especially when shot at higher velocitys/temps (e.g. gas checks for your .357) but copper jacketed foul barrels as well. (And don't believe any of this bunk about how moly coated bullets won't foul barrels - they will.)

A buildup of any type can decrease accuracy, although many shooters prefer a "thin" layer of fouling to remain as it essentially helps to "fill in" imperfections on the lands within the barrel. This is also something to consider when "sighting in" for hunting season, as a completely clean barrel will affect bullet placement. (e.g. the follow up shot will now be coming from a "fouled" barrel instead of a clean one as the first shot did. In other words, when preparing for hunting season, sight in on a fouled barrel, not a clean one. --within reason of course.)

Powder can also build up (foul) the barrel. A much bigger problem from the perspective of enhancing corrosion factors than metal (lead/copper) fouling. Black powder has a reputation for being far worse due to its chemical makeup for attracting moisture. Powder can also find its way throughout the rest of the functioning of the firearm as well, and if allowed to build up, may prevent proper function (e.g. semi-auto pistols are some of the worst offenders in this area.)

Surface Rust
As you point out, it is a good idea to have an oiled rag you "wipe down" your firearms with after you are finished handling them. This will help to remove the salts you deposit from your skin when handling them, and although many believe it is unnecessary to do such with nickel or stainless firearms, it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

Granted this is a lot more than you originally asked for (and really, there’s a lot I didn’t talk about), but hopefully some folks out there got something useful out of it.

[pbenven]

I mostly only shoot my guns during hunting season, which wraps up (except for rabbit) December 31st. It's part of my holiday tradition to clean my guns at this time.

I pour a little solvent down the barrel and follow it with a nylon brush, making 4 passes.
I check for residue using a flashlight with a fibre-optic attachment that I can bend into the barrel from the chamber.
I wrap a patch around the nylon brush and make 2 passes, switch to a clean patch and repeat.
When the patches come out clean, I switch to a cotton swab moistened with oil and make a final two passes with it.
I spray "Rem-Oil" into the moving parts and operate them vigorously a few times and then wipe off any excess.
The whole gun gets wiped down with an oily rag as I place it into the safe.

Maintenance during the season is usually nothing more than a wipe down with the oily rag after every hunt.

[Ranchman]

Alan-

Something else while I'm thinking of it - if you're spending too much on ammo for your .357, you should consider buying some stuff from this place.

It's on the North side of Fort Worth (which if memory serves, isn't that far from you) so you could make a drive - or - you could always order over the web or phone.

As you can see, they have 50 round boxes of new mfg. jacketed cartridges in the $8-$9 range. (along with the expensive stuff.)

You could always get in to reloading, but that's a whole other subject. For the casual shooter, CTD (or better yet, a gun show) is a great place to get cheap ammo.

Hope this helps.

[bgott]

Be careful oiling the inside of the cylinder on that .357. You don't want oil getting near the cartridges on any of your guns. The oil can wick into the cartridges and wet the powder, not good. I oiled the snot out of the cylinder on my .38 once and left it loaded. After about a month I went to shoot it at a target hanging on an oak tree and it misfired. I had to step out of the way of the bullet that bounced back. That kind of messed with my head. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] If I remember right, three out of the five remaining rounds did the same thing. I lightened up on the oil and the problem went away.

[Alan_L_Texas]

I very much appreciate the advice. Pvenben, you say you use a nylon brush to remove residue in the barrel. My standard Hoppes guncleaning kit has wire brushes and thats what I have been using. Hope I'm not harming the barrel.

Ranchman, I live about 75 miles or so northeast of Ft. Worth. I checked out the website and those are good deals on .357 ammo, especially since it is name brand. I paid $14.99 a box (50) at Oshmans the other day.

I just ordered and received 3 boxes of .357 ammo, 50 to the box, 125gr, FMJ for $8.45 per box plus $7 total shipping from an outfit on the internet - I forget which. I have shot about 20 rounds out of it and it seemed fine. The ammo is made in the Phillipines by Arms Corp. The box says Armscor Precision. I don't know what kind of primer it uses. They came loose in the box, and one of the boxes came apart during shipping and the cartridges were just loose in the shipping box.

There is so much knowledge and experience on this board, I have a couple of other questions:

What about shooting .38 special ammo in a .357 magnum revolver? I have heard doing this alot can leave some residue in the there that is hard to clean. A friend of mine always uses .38 specials for target practice and says its shouldn't be a problem if you clean after each use.

I bought a big box of Blazer .22 long rifle cartridges while I was at Oshmans, pulled out my .22 that I hadn't shot in 2 or 3 years, and it would misfire about every 4th or 5th round. Looking at the cartridge, there appeared to be an indention in the rim where the firing pin struck, but I'm not sure if it struck hard enough. Figured on taking it to a gunsmith and getting him to check it out.

Anyway, I found that I could run those cartridges back through the gun and they would fire the second time around. This is a semi-automatic rifle. Late yesterday when I was ready to call it a day, I loaded on shell into the chamber that had misfired, and it misfired again. Now I'm a little uneasy about having these shells around that have been struck by the firing pin. Not sure how dangerous they are, but figured they would be less dangerous if I were to go ahead and fire them. Three times and this one wouldn't fire. But this time, when I tried to eject it, I didn't see it come out. Its getting kind of dark. I look in there and I don't see it, so figure it must be on the ground somewhere and I just didn't see it. Brilliantly, I decide to load up another round and shoot it, just to be sure. Well, now there are 2 rounds stuck in the chamber - the original round that has misfired 3 times, and the other shell I tried to chamber right behind it. Both are stuck. Seems like a dangerous situation.

I put the .22 in the case and put it behind my pickup seat, and off we go to the gunsmith tomorrow. I hope he can get it fixed without shooting himself.

[Alan_L_Texas]

Bgott, are you talking about not oiling inside each opening in the revolver cylinder - the holes where the ammo goes? If so, no, I haven't oiled there at all. I did put a drop on the thingamajig that pushes the spent cartridges out when you're done (sorry for the technical lingo, for all you out there who aren't gun experts like me [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )

[Ranchman]

<font color="blue">...standard Hoppes guncleaning kit has wire brushes...hope I'm not harming...</font color>

You're safe (for the most part). The Hoppes brushes use copper (same thing as jackets on bullets) to "scrub" the barrel. The only real problem you could encounter would be if you inadvertently allowed the steel in the center of the brush (what they use to hold the copper bristles) rub/mar/scratch areas of your pistol. Some folks like their scrubbing stuff a bit more well thought out than the mass marketed stuff (like from Hoppes, Outers, etc.) Really, as long as you are just careful, you shouldn't have any problems with those brushes.

<font color="blue">The box says Armscor Precision</font color>

I'm not really familiar with this brand, but I'd be willing to bet it is boxer primed, reloadable &amp; non-corrosive (mainly because I don't think any government ever adopted the .357 as a standard issue weapon for their military.) Too bad things got a bit "unorganized" during shipment. Since it was for a short time, probably nothing to worry about.

<font color="blue">What about shooting .38 special ammo in a .357 magnum revolver?</font color>

You can certainly do it. Actually it's kindof funny you brought it up as I had thought about suggesting doing just that (for reasons of economy) after my last post as .38 spl is plentiful and cheap.

There can be a build up by shooting the shorter stuff, however I've found that it is not nearly the problem as most folks seem to believe. (I use Hoppes #9 and patches on the cylinder which seems to resolve the problem - stubborn stuff gets a copper brush.) Again, you could clean the cylinder after shooting .38 spl every time, but it really isn't necessary unless you shoot a lot of .38 through it.

I'd probably suggest cleaning a bit more often than if you stuck with just .357 alone, but not overly so. It all really depends on the gun though - e.g. if it becomes a little more difficult to insert (or extract) .357 cartridges after shooting a number of .38 spl through it, probably a bit more cleaning on the internals of the cylinder may be in order. (Don't worry about the barrel, as it has no "clue" what cartridge type it has been digesting.)

<font color="blue">...and off we go to the gunsmith tomorrow.</font color>

Too bad you had some problems. When in doubt and live ammo is involved, a gunsmith isn't a bad way to go. I'm sure he'll check everything out - but I'll throw out 2 guesses as to your misfire. 1) bad ammo (certainly possible) or 2) weak firing pin spring. There could always be something else awry (maybe the bolt is failing to close 100% and although enough to allow the firing pin to fly forward, not enough to allow it to fly forward completely, etc. etc.) but my "gut" says "spring." I'd be curious to see what he says. Keep us informed - especially if the ammo winds up being the culprit.

PS: thingamajig=ejector rod [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[wingnut]

Alan,

I've got a Dan Wesson 357 mag ... and those shells (even reloads) were awful darned expensive in Alberta (what with Canada's moronic gun laws). The owner of the shooting gallery that I frequented told me about the .38 shells ... so my revolver has seen at least 90% .38 shells. I don't see any difference in cleaning ... same amount of deposit. I keep it loaded with .357's ... but fire them rarely ... just when I need to feel a bigger kick when plinking ... [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

pete (far north of buglussle!)

[LazyJ_Arabians]

The 38 special "wadcutter" target loads are particularly nasty economy cartridges that will leave some heavy residue. I worked at a major ammunition manufacturer right out of high school and would like to add that in my experience an unchambered cartridge/shotshell is not inherently dangerous. They will go off if damaged or defective but even if nickel plated will always blow out the casing and with the bullet remaining intact. I'd hate to have it happen while in my pocket or hand but powder burns would be only result. What is dangerous that I see treated with little respect are the 100 count boxes of #209 primers that are so popular in the inline muzzleloaders nowdays. These boxes equate to a blast of almost grenade magnitude that can be triggered by simple static electricity. I saw 35 pound cans of powder blow and 100 count "clips" of primers blow during my tenure at this plant, the primer accidents were always the most feared.