South Central Oklahoma Farmhouse

[ScottAR]

I bet those guys are enjoying the cooler temps... Sounds like heavy work.

I'm with your builder, We used Avantech I think it's called on my cousin's floor deck. Much nicer to work with, flatter so one doesn't have to beat one's brains out to make the tounge and groove mate. Also doesn't warp if it gets rained on a couple times. A friend used the Weyerhauser version and reports similar satisfaction.

[Pat]

dummy, My original design concept called for 3 each heating appliance rated propane fired gas logs. Subsequent thought has reduced that since some of my spaces are too easy to heat for the smallest size gas log fireplace I could find. Now the plan is to still have a gas log fireplace in the great room but reduce the other instalations to some sort of decorative parlor stove. I'm still strugling with finding units with lower Btu ratings.

Alll 3 units will be self generating milivolt system safety pilots suitable for thermostatic control and operation with no external electric power. I will install ceiling mounted registers above the units in the sitting room and the basement with fans in their ducts to draw off excess heated air for use elsewhere. These fans can be wired to thermostats located at ceiling level, possibly inside the grill of the register. The thermostats don't need to be adjustable, just selected for an appropriate operating temp and can have 2 switches with each, one in parallel and one in series. These switches can completely override the thermostat and force the fan to run or prevent it from running or allow the thermostat to control the fan.

Without a way to draw off excess heat I am concerned that the unit would have a very low duty cycle, on for a minute and off for several. Since the stoves are decorative as well as functional, it is good if they run long enough to give you a look at the pretty immitation logs and embers that cost so dear.

In summer, the ceiling mounted registers could be used as part of the return air when in the cooling cycle (if my HVAC guy approves.) My HVAC guy told me about a propane fired backup furnace module that costs a few hundred dollars and installs in the air handler system of a heat pump. If we opt for the new high SEER units vice the geothermal (ground sourced heat pumps) then we'll get at least one of the propane backup modules.

Even though I intend to have a backup genset, I will still have the 3 propane units that require no external power. I guess the term "backup" is overloaded and leads to confusion from the ambiguity. Within the confines of the heatpump system "backup" heat is either electric heater strips or gas (propane or natural) and I will use gas. In general, as regards the entire house as a system, backup heat is the gas logs and stoves.

While sufficient wood is available to support a wood burning backup approach, gas is just too much easier. If conditions were ever such as to warrant it, I could install wood burning appliances in place of the gaslogs/parlor stoves. I have considered "alternative" heat sources for my shop, even though it will have central heat and air. I have a new unused small diesel heater intended for "yacht" use that I never installed, I have a cast iron kit that converts a steel drum to a waste wood burner, and I have a "home made" oil and scrap burner the previous owner used to heat the existing 35x75x20 metal shop should I choose to set it up. I think he burned used oil products from his dozer buisness, lube oil, hydraulic fluit, tranny fluid, or whatever in a drip feed system with a manual control valve. While possible, it is not likely that I would use that.

Electric or fossil fuel???? Around here electric IS fossil fuel. Our electric plants are mostly coal or gas fired, I think, certainly not nukes.

Pat

[Pat]

Scott, We are testing the rain/warp thing right now as it is raining cats and dogs (would you believe kittens and puppies?)

Pat

[dummy]

Electric or fossil fuel???? No, just on the heat pumps. They are made now to accept electric, gas (N or LP) or fuel oil (diesel). Easily agree that the gas stoves are way better than wood. Almost instant heat and not as hard on the back [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] You're certainly putting alot of great things into your home.

Dale

[Pat]

Dale, My point was that I might have, at first, picked a different meaning for "backup" than you intended, hence my disambiguation of the overloaded term.

Once upon a time there were units that actually burned natural gas or propane in the outside part of the split system to provide heat for the heatpump to pump when there wasn't much available in the environment. I'm told they were poor and it was not likely that any remain in service around here.

I just recently heard about the high efficiency add-in gas furnace module that is a companion to a heat pump and will go with at least one of those. HVAC guy just got a new software for computer aided engineering of systems and is working some smaller problems that he knows the answers to before tackling my job. I appreciate his caution.

We will have 3 floors in the house andd will have 3 heatpumps. One unit will do the ground and second floor of the shops as two zones with capability to isolate a zone and run an exhaust fan with open windows and not disturb the other floor. The ground floor of the house and the basement will be on a unit in the basement (may remain geothermal even if the other two go to the new high SEER lenox), it does the hydronic in-floor heating on the main floor plus the main floor and basement A/C. The third unit does all of the upstairs, except the second floor shop. May sound some complicated but it isn't. The shops being on their own unit was an IAQ issue. Didn't want to share shop air with house.

I've had real wood burning stoves and fireplace and it was OK but not real convenient. There are units that can be charged with wood and operated by thermostat and will run all day or more or you can use a big hopper on a pellet or corn burning stove for unattended weeks of thermostatic controlled heat with computer controlled setback thermostats B U T it doesn't appeal to me and I want to set things up so that in the future I don't leave a big hassle for my wife. Also, I may just be lazy. I'd rather save my energy for other things, including tractoring.

Not much progress today on house, an inch of rain so far. Am working on suspended porch deck and sunroom design with some help from a structural engineer via phone and email.

Except for the gas furnace to be installed as part of heat pump, the gas heaters are for emergency backup heat WHEN THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY. I don't want to be totally dependent on my backup generator. There is another use for the decorative parlor stoves and the gas log fireplace and that is ambience. They look nice whether operating on not. We have run my mom's gas log fireplace a lot because it looks so nice and heats most of the house that is routinely occupied as opposed to her heat pump which heats the whole house as a single zone.

Remains to be seen what our usage pattern will be in our new house.

Pat

[dummy]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[Pat]

Dale (AKA DUMMY) et al, I will be sending my wifes digicam off for repairs today. I have ordered a inexpensive backup digicam and it has shipped. Hope to get some pix posted within a week as there is considerable visible progress. The shop walls are framed, shed is decked, the util room, hall bath, and shop bath are framed.

Insulated ventilated nail deck is due in Friday so next week we can start roof deck of the 12:12 portion of the shop/garage.

Pat

[Pat]

Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated!

I am alive and well A N D expect the digicam back from Kodak real soon now. It arrived Kodak repair facility 25 SEPT and didn't get touched until 30SEPT and was shipped 01OCT and could arrive as early as tomorrow but I won't hold my breath.

Much progress to photodocument. Lots of wood got butchered and hung up. More concrete got poured (some of the porches). There is a second floor above my shop (wife's shop), there is floor decking above kitchen and entry (loft) and on and on. Hope to post pix soon.

Bought a cheap digicam to fill in but failed to get a good S/W install. I really dislike Windoze 98 and its USB autodetect installation as when it fails you can never "go back" and do it again to get it right. Any GURU out there who might offer some sugestions? Might want to go private to avoid wasting everyones time.

Patrick

[Clint]

Good to hear your not dead! Oklahoma's burial laws make dying cost a fortune.

Clint

[Pat]

Clint, (et al)
Here is an attempt to show current state. In order to reduce total number of posts required to show the pix, I have made multiple shots into one image. Some would have been candidates for making into a panoramic colage if I weren't so lazy, but OH WELL!

This first graphic, from left to right, is the garage/shop then the kitchen/living/dining/computer room/entry (no second floor walls yet) and the last picture is of the master suite. (Details follow)

At the extreme left is the 36x48 garage/shop module. This is the part with the horizonatl roofing members (2"x8"x12'). Under the gable end all the way to the left will be the three garage doors. At the other end is my shop. Close inspection reveals a door frame and a couplel window frames. (Garage has a window too.) Above my shop (10 ft ceiling) is the second floor shop (half mine and half my wife's (now... later 100% hers probably, given the way things work) The dormer in her shop is 8 ft wide and has 9 ft head room. There is another dormer on the other side.

The gallon jug on top of the temp power pole is my waterproof telephone box. Cut the top out of a galon milk jug, punch a couple holes in the bottom to drain (just in case), cut the bottom out of a second jug and slip over the bottom jug which is fastened with screws and washers to top of pole. Phone is upright cordless ($8 after rebate from Radio Shack, I bought 4)

Center picture shows the main entry(large rectangular hole). Hole to the right is computer room window. Soon there will be a dormer above the entry. Probably a tad over 12 ft wide with around 7 ft or so of window width. This will be the upstairs bath.

The third picture (last on right) is the master suite. The window is in the bathroom. The center section of the house with living, dining, kitchen, entry, and computer room is roughly 34x37 ft OD with an 8 ft wide porch across the front. The master suite has no porch on the front side. It has a wrap around 10'6" wide porch on the west and south sides. The master suite is about 31x35 OD with 13 inch thick walls (ICF OD) 8 inches of steel reinforced 4000PSI concrete inside the ICF's styrofoam insulation. The ICF guys put in all the steel they normally use for saferooms and I put in rebar between theirs to double the steel schedule. I had them use 5/8 2'x2' prebent rebar corners everywhere it made sense and some places where I wasn't sure. STEEL IS GOOD!

The house will have nearly all 12:12 pitch gable roof sections (like the garage/shop) with 4:12 on the porch roof sections.

The stairs, rising to the right, go from the main floor to the upstairs. These stairs cross over the stairs that go to the basement. The stairway to the basement is to the right of the entry and parallels the entry hall. Not to worry, there is a minimum of 7 ft headroom where the main-upper floor stairs crosses the main-basement stairs.

More later.

Pat