Please tell me about dogs

[Mosey]

After trying cats (and failing to make it work out, see Well, I started feeling guilty), my wife and I are considering getting a dog for kids (6 1/2 year old twins, boy and girl). We would get one in the summer for the kids birthday (in July).

But, before I do this, I want to know what to expect. We had dogs (mostly beagles) when I was growing up, but I haven't had a dog around in over 20 years. It will be an outside dog. We want something good with kids, and we both like golden retrievers so we're leaning heavily toward one of them.

I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard, garage floor, flower beds, gravel, etc. If this is not true, please tell me about it now!

My other concern is barking. When I've lived in the city in the past there were always dogs barking. The neighbors dog barked at me when I went out into my own back yard. They barked at night and kept me awake. Either the owners weren't there, were deaf, or they just didn't care. Now that I'm in the country, it's not so bad because the neighbors are farther away. But, I still hear dogs barking a lot and wonder why the owners don't do something about it. I think it's mostly when the owners are not home or when they're asleep and they must be heavy sleepers and/or hard of hearing so it doesn't bother them. Is it possible to train a dog not to bark all the time? I understand they are going to bark sometimes and they can warn of intruders, but it doesn't do any good if they are always "crying wolf". Can a dog be trained to only bark at certain things (car pulled in the driveway) and not others (squirrel in the woods)? I don't want to be an annoying neighbor because my dog barks too much!

The beagles we had when I was growing up usually ended up dead in the road. They would get on a rabbit track and didn't pay attention. Can dogs be trained to stay out of the road?

[WVBill]

First, from what I've read, "experts" recommend never giving an animal as a birthday/christmas/etc. gift. It adds a level of stress to forming the relationship that is unhelpful.

You said: <font color="blue"> I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard, </font color>

Based on my experience and observation, your assumption is wrong. Dogs can be housebroken but once you let them outside they pretty much just follow natural instincts. The dogs I've had, even if we tok them out on a lead and tried to make it to a certain location, if they needed to go before that, they went. I think they can get the concept of where NOT to go, but not the concept of where TO go.

On the subject of barking, some dog breeds are notorious "barkers" and some are not. Even within breeds, some appear to bark more than others. Dogs are very social, "pack" animals. You will become their "pack" and many of their habits, good and bad will depend on how much you interact, socialize and get to know them.


Please don't take offense, but from reading your saga of the cats and your criteria for a dog, I think you may just not be an "animal person".

WVBill

[Boondox]

Mosey -- Please don't get a dog, especially a golden, if you intend to keep it outside. To WVBill's comments about dogs being social animals I would add a heartfelt "Amen!" Goldens are so incredibly social that the only form of punishment we use is throwing them outside away from the "pack." It is incredibly hurtful, and a five minute time out is incredibly effective.

Of the 200+ goldens we've helped find new homes, the worst behavioral problems -- and all of the dogs we had to put down -- were the result of being "outside" dogs. And those barking dogs you referred to, my bet is 99% of them are in the yard away from their pack. A bored dog is a barking dog.

No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..?

Pete
Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue
Lamoille County, Vermont

[Mosey]

WVBill - Thanks for the advice. It may be true that I'm not an "animal person", and if so I need to find that out before I get any more pets. But, the pet is not for me, mainly for the kids. So, I need to find out if I can just at least tolerate him/her and not keep having the constant battles like with the cats. I do think it's fair to say that there a lot of people out there that own pets that are also not "animal people", such as the ones that let there dogs bark continuously, let them roam around uncontrolled, leave them to be alone in a pen all the time or in an apartment while they are gone from 6am to 11pm, etc. If I'm going to be a pet owner, I want to be a humane one!

[PhilNH5]

Danny,
I have always had dogs. Always inside ones - members of the household actually. I have two now, one of which is a Golden. I believe this breed would make a terrible "outside" dog. They are definitely people dogs. Mika's greatest joy in life is to be hanging around with us. He is never not near a family member. I had another Golden 5 years back and she was the same way. If Boondox sees this he may offer good insights about Goldens.

Regarding barking dogs. I think they do it cause they are bored or lonely. My dogs both present and past bark at a percieved threat or unsual sound. Great for security. I get up and investigate when one of my dogs barks. My neighbors outside dogs bark and I completely tune them out. Their house could be robbed and I would never know cause I ignore the barking. And since the dogs are chained outside they pose no threat other than noise to any would be intruder.

Dogs are definetly "high maintenance" when compared to cats. They need training, exercise, food etc

Phil

[PhilNH5]

Well I see Boondox did reply while I was typing.

Phil

[Mosey]

"No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..?"

I'm not surprised to get bashed, I expected to have a bad reputation regarding pets due to the "cats saga". Give me some slack though, I tried very hard to make the cats situation work out.

As for keeping the dogs in or out, my brother had a very happy golden retriever that was an outside dog and lived to a ripe old age.

[RichZ]

Danny, as Pete said, dogs are social animals. While you may occaisionally find a dog that doesn't mind being alone outside, that is certainly not the norm. Dogs consider your family the pack, and want to spend their time with the family. An outside dog will almost certainly be barking often and loud to get the attention of the family. It will be hard on the dog, and even cruel to the dog. As I had tried to explain to you, cats can do well outside, because they are not social animals, dogs must have a family to constantly interact with.

As Pete suggested, I think you might want to look towards other animals as pets for the kids, though I would discourage you from any member of the parrot family (like cockatiels) as they are also very social, noisy and time consuming. How about a rabbit. They're cute, furry, can live outside in a hutch, and won't get into any trouble.

Sorry, Danny, no offense intended, but you expect animals to act within certain parameters that are just not realistic. You can't expect certain behaviors from certain animals. You have to understand their nature.

[Mosey]

This is amazing. When I first researched cats (not very well I'll admit), I was told by most that they should always be kept inside. Now people are saying the same thing about dogs!?

[hazmat]

Danny,

Please don't take this as additional bashing, but I've got to agree with Pete.

What makes a dog easy to train is it's desire to please the alpha dog (you &amp; your family). If you leave him outside all the time you will have little success getting him to go where you want, not bark &amp; all other obedience.

When we are not home, I will put the older dog out in our fenced yard (depending on the weather). He does NOT bark untill we get home. If we don't let him in, he makes serious noise until reunited with his pack. The pup is in his crate all day. Both sleep in our bedroom at night (Pup in crate) big guy on the floor untill 3am when he sneaks into bed (I'm letting him get away with that since we still don't have heat on the second floor).

Something else to consider, dogs are bigger than cats &amp; can cause more damage than a cat. They sometimes dig holes in your yard or garden, chew the deck railing, or even chomp on the clapboards of your house (all things I've experienced) Almost always when the dog wasn't being entertained--reasons why pup is in crate all day.

If you are willing to let him into your home &amp; family, I think a dog is a wonderful pet. If you are going to keep him outside, I don't think either you or the dog will be happy.

For all the negative things I've written, there are many more positives. People with dogs get more exercise, the unconditionaly love is comforting when you've had a rough day, the list goes on. With a little effort it is possible to get train them to be well mannered in the house. For example our boys lie down while we eat dinner, and ring a bell to be let outside. Still working on them greeting visitors well (they get excited because it is a rare event). As was our trainer's motto: Set them up for success. If you don't want them on the kitchen counter, don't leave food there. The wife will be happy because you are keeping the kitchen clean [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Stop by your local library &amp; pick up a couple books on dog training. They should help give you an idea what you might be in for.