...and payday is on Friday.

[Pat]

Engineering is a series of tradeoffs. Housebuilding is no exception. I ended up choosing to have a bathroom and a second kitchen in the basement although with other considerations it meant that the waste effluent will have to go uphill to the leach field. To avoid having to use a "macerator" type pump that grinds and pumps solids (poor MTBF, i.e. trouble prone) we are placing a conventional septic tank downslope of the walkout basement but its output will not go directly to a leach field it will be pumped uphill by a liquid handling pump to the level of the septic tank serving the ground floor and upstairs.

Anyone out there have experience in systems that have to do things like this? Do you plumb the output of the pump to a "T" at the output of the "main tank?" If it weren't for a "stiring up the solids" issue, I'd be leaning toward sending the pump output to the main tank. My previous reading on septic systems gave me the impression that you wanted the last chamber in the system to be fairly undisturbed and stay full with its over flow being nearly clear water, solids having settled out. Pumping a batch up from the lower tank would certainly stirr things up.

Perhaps I should consider one extra chamber in the lower tank. This would fill from natural gravity flow from what is ordinarily the last chamber and not contain anything that wouldn't have ordinarily gone to the leach field. Then it could be pumped as a batch to the leach field without puting anything in the leach fiield that it wouldn't have already had. (some of this started sounding like a "horse with no name")

Sure don't wan't to cause stuff to go to the leach field that it shouldn't get. I would like to have enough reserve capacity in the lower tank such that it would not "back up" during power outages of several hours or maybe a couple days if that is practical. In an extended outage I will, of course, fire up a generator to "recharge" the frige and freezer, get weather reports on sat TV, and such so electricity to run the pump will be available.

Ideas?

Patrick

[wingnut]

The setup that I inherited in Alberta either meant that there were no standards ... or nobody worried about the standards.
Basically, I had a very large septic tank (2 chamber, with the intake into the smaller chamber. The solids ... being solid, stayed at the bottom of the first chamber and gave the bacteria something to occupy their time with. The liquid spilled over into the large second chamber. Periodically, determined by a float switch, the effluent pump would come on and pump that second chamber out. (The system did work very well, never froze up even at -40 ... and I only had it pumped out twice in 8 years and I kept the cost down by having him deposit the "nightsoil" in an unused area of the back 40.)
The reason I mentioned "standards" is that the place the effluent went was a swampy area about 1000 feet from the house. Would that qualify as a leach field>
I never bothered "fixing" the system ... other than some pump maintenance ... since there was only odor when the pump was running and only noticeable if you were standing beside the outlet (in the swampy area - so not very likely).
Anyway ... the moral of the story is that there's no reason that the hose couldn't have gone to another tank at a higher elevation ... the sewage pump was certainly more than strong enough.

pete

[Pat]

Hey Pete, I thought the "good ole boys" 'round here were casual in their engineering... 50 gal oil drum with holes punched in it with a pick axe burried in (preferably) sandy soil as the combination septic tank/leach tank. When it quits working they burry another one and switch the connections. Just leave the old one burried. WOW!

Thanks for the reassurance. I want a three chambered tank or a two chambered tank with an additional tank on its output to be sure I'm not pumpiing any solids into the leach field. Ordinarily the last chamber gently and slowly overflows to the leach field, leaving any solids (some float) in the tank. Pumpin will stir the , uh err ahh... stuff so I don't want the tank with the pump to have any solids floating or otherwise. I need to remember that the second chamber should be tapped into down a ways from the top to avoid floating stuff as well as the solids that sink. I think it will be best to pump the third/last tank/chamber directly to the leach field so as to not homogenize the contents of the output chamber of the "main" septic system up the hill. This implies a surge capacity for the leach field in excess of the quantity to be pumped in a batch. Sounds like a good argument for the "Infiltrator" system instead of traditional perf pipe and gravel or shredded tires in the leach field.

Thanks again for the sanity check on the design ideas.

Patrick

[egon]

Pete:
About 55 years ago when my Father installed a septic system on the farm an inspector was sent out to okay the system.

Egon

[WVBill]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
To avoid having to use a "macerator" type pump that grinds and pumps solids (poor MTBF, i.e. trouble prone)

[/ QUOTE ]

We have a bathroom in our basement that has a "hung sewer" and an effluent pump up to our septic system. Not a single problem in 4 1/2 years (XX Cross fingers XX).

[Pat]

WVBill, Could you give me a little more detail on your system? And what is a hung sewar? Sounds like a plumbing problem rather than a system description.

I read the adds and got info mailed to me from the folks who advertise the toilets that flush uphill. Big technological surprise... a small holding tank with a level switch to operate a grinder pump. Not a bad idea B U T if the power goes out it won't take long to come to a halt. I hope to have enough capacity to wait out a decent outage. The longest outage here in last 5 years was 3 days. Outages are frequent but virtually always less than 24 hours. I figure I can walk out to the shop (actually a part of the house) where the emergency generator will be located and give it a yank if the outage lasts more than a few hours and interferes with my entertainment, eating, or use of the basement facilities.

My advisors and my limited experience (clorinator macerators in marine heads) tells me that pumps for grinding and pumping solids have a higher failure rate than pumps for liquids. Even if they lasted as well, which could be the case if you pay enough, they are more expensive to buy and maintain. Still, if the cost were the same and MTBF were the same, I'd want the larger tank system I am planning due to the relatively unreliable nature of our rural coop power grid.

I assume your pump pumps into the first chamber as if the stuff got there by the normal route?

Patrick

[WVBill]

Pat:

In my set up, I have a basement bathroom (shower, sink, toilet). These drain into a sump tank buried in the basement slab. It is about three feet deep and 20" in diameter and has a top that seals it.

In the sump tank sits my sewage effluent (grinder) pump. The pump has a float switch that cycles it on and off. Through the sealed top is a vent (connected to the vent system upstairs) and a 2" PVC pipe from the output of the effluent pump. There is a one-way check valve right at the top of the tank. From the check valve the 2" drain pipe goes up to the ceiling of the basement where it "Y's" into the 4" drain going to the first floor plumbing. This 4" drain exits the basement and into the septic system by gravity.

The float switch cycles the effluent pump about every 6 gallons so it takes about 4 toilet flushes before it cycles.

It's been in there for 4 1/2 years with no problems. I DO have a water sensor alarm sitting on the top of the sealed lid in case, for some reason the pump fails at least we'll know to stop using the basement bath very quickly.

The basement bath is not our primary bathroom so we would not use it in the event of a power failure.

I do not recall what kind of effluent pump we installed and I don't think I want to open that sucker up to look for you. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I was told that a "hung sewer" is one in which the city sewer or your septic tank is above the lowest point of your house's plumbing drain, requiring a pump up to that level.

[Pat]

Hey Wild Bill, what does the V stand for? Just kidding! Sounds like you have a good straight forward system. As I have a guest bedroom in the walkout basement (the upstairs guest bedrooms are not safe rooms) I would like to have more reserve capacity in case of power outages. My builder suggested a smaller but standard septic tank downhill a bit from the walkout to provide good reserve capacity and to only have to pump liquids (cheaper and a bit more reliable) I imagine in years to come I will get a twofer at pumpout time. Any reason I sohouldn't install a pumpout pipe with plug above surface? Wouldn't have to dig down to lid and the pipe could be disguised/hidden.

Patrick

[Chillimau]

Don't know the answer but here is a link to it. Okla DEQ Individual and small septic rules (According to OK Law anyway)I would think the section "lift stations" would answer your question.

Gary

[Pat]

Gary, Thanks. I will read that stuff as soon as I can connect through that link. It keeps refusing me but I'll find a way.

Thanks again,

Patrick