Frozen septic!

[Boondox]

Of all the things I hate to face, this takes the cake! We rent out a cottage to a very active mini-woman. (Hikes, bikes, skis, runs, swims, snowshoes and looks like a 4'10" Demi Moore with horrible taste in men!) Anyway, she's away so much that without the woodstove going the pipes have been on the verge of freezing all winter. So we put heat lamps on the critical sections when she's out, but now it turns out she's not home enough to generate enough to keep the septic happy! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] The line from the cottage to the septic field froze, and the snow is pretty deep over the field, i.e., not much sign of biological action.

Worse, the local plumbers are "not accepting new customers" because of all the frozen pipes they have to deal with. One of them thinks he can reach us by Wednesday. I think when this is all over we might need to rewrite the lease. Can I require a tenant to poop at home on a regular basis..? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Pete

[pbenven]

I suppose you could stipulate that in a leasing contract - it might even help to scare away those pesky city-folk [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img].

I've never tried this, nor do I know if it's a good idea, but can you pour hot water down there? Perhaps even devise some sort of weird clean out system where you put a tee and a ball valve in after your hot water tank that leads directly to the drain pipe.

What would a plumber do to fix this?

[Mike_Dumond]

Pete, quick question. Is this a pumped system? And is the line going out in relatively good condition? A normal system, (free flowing), shouldn't freeze unless something in the line is holding up the flow. Rotor-ruter might be what you need if this is the problem. Maybe there is a dip in the line allowing pooling. If so, then digging it up next summer is the long term solution. If it's a pumped system, these are super suseptible to freezing. Heat tape is the normal fix for that up here. (Again, next summer)

For the immediate problem. Does any drainage take place, even if it's over a period of time? If so, you might be able to introduce hot water into the line with a hose. You need to get the hot water to the frozen spot. Run a snake in, that'll tell you how far the frozen section is. If it's not draining at all, then it'll still work, but the mess in the cellar is gonna be alot worse.

And, if it's a pumped system, the mess is definately gonna be something you don't want to think about. Word of warning. In a pumped system, while you're pushing in the hot water, don't try looking into the cleanout. Been there, done that. And if you do, keep your mouth closed. Been there, done that also. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Best bet on getting a plumber, offer him a sizable tip. There are alot of things plumbers hate, and this is the number one on the list. Glad I'm not in the business anymore. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Stoneheartfarm]

Pete,

I wouldn't expect the snow to be affected over the leach field. By the time the water gets there it should have already cooled to just above freezing. There is about 2 feet of snow over my field and it is working fine. Even the tank has plenty of snow on it, and so far no problems.

I guess some questions to ask are: How old is the system, and what kind of system is it? Is the frost in your area unusually deep or heavy this year? What I'm thinking is the line might be frozen the last couple of feet before the tank. This would be a smaller mass of water without the connection to deeper soil that the main tank would have.

I don't think I've ever heard of a poop clause. But, if you think the problem is strictly a lack of material for biological action, you could try dumping some sugar down there. If you can get the line thawed. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Steve

[Boondox]

Mike -- It's an old free-flow system, but the cottage is built on rocky ledge, so the line is only 18" - 2' down. We've always relied on insulating snow to keep it (and the water line from the well head) open. Only this year has been a tad nippy. Usually we see one or two days each winter where the high never gets above zero. This year we've had 15 days so far that never saw the zero mark. My fear is the distribution line is in frozen ground, so the effluent can't get out. Then the brownwater in the lines froze. Worst of all possible situations.

Once this is resolved, if the tenant can't / won't poop more, I'll try to convince the wife to burn the cottage and replace it with a barn! [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Pete

[hazmat]

Jeeze Pete, you're making my week w/o heat on the second floor seem like a walk in the park. I mentioned your problem to the wife, now she's worried that our septic system will freeze too. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[BrianP]

If its just the pipe thats blocked it can be unfroze in the following manner.

Get a 3/4 inch or so PVC plastic hose like you'd use as a water pipe from a well. Slide it down the poop pipe till it stops, hoping like mad there are no 90 degree corners. Hook the other end to your hot water tank (a one way valve might be an idea) and run as hot hot water as you can down there, pushing the pipe to measure progress.

If you are lucky, its just a short blockage and you'll be right through. If you are unlikely, the pipe will fill with disgusting [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] water, so you had better plan what to do to get rid of it (another pipe pulling water out with a pump would be an idea, especially if you could rent it).

Your pipe should not freeze unless there is an obstruction because the stuff just flys down there. Consider reaming it out. Mine had a piece of stryrofoam left over from the construction phase. I unblocked it twice before I reamed it out. Like an idiot, [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] the first time I unblocked it I used a reamer, but stopped once the blockage had been cleared (i.e. not the cause of the blockage, which was a piece of foam just big enough to make the water pool.)

You may consider digging up the pipe and putting some foam insulation around it. A lot of work, though.

Looks like Demi Moore, eh?

[RichZ]

Pete, how about pouring Rid-X or a similar product down the toilet in the cottage once a month? That ought to keep the bacterial action going.