I will begin around the first of April and I trying to get estimates for the basement. They have ranged from 10 to 20k. This is with block being half as much as the poured. The site is well drained and I was wondering if the poured is that much better. What has been others experience in the past with either?
Patrick
Both work. I'm surprised at the price differential. You may want to check on what is being quoted to ensure that the bids are equivalent.
I've had poured foundations with cracks which leaked and a block foundation which leaked a little too. I think the keys are drainage around the foundation and proper site work to minimize settling and ensure good surface drainage.
I suspect it has to do with the contractors and what they are used to. Around here everything is poured as that is what all the contractors are equipped to do. I can't imagine block being cheaper as a poured basement takes three days of work (set forms, pour, remove forms). Block takes more labor no matter how you look at it.
Either will hold up a house just fine, both will crack and both will leak if not graded/drained properly. Go with whatever costs less for you [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Rob
Lots of people swear by them, but I wouldn't build a house with a block foundation, and probably wouldn't buy one either. I have seen all kinds of broken up block foundations, including one which bowed in and collapsed. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
Although I've seen cracked poured foundations, I've never seen a failure per se. My foundation is not only poured, but has horizontal and vertical rebar as well.
No block foundations for me.
I would check. The block may be cheaper. Will you be doing the labor yourself?
I personally prefer poured. When the pour is done (about 3 days, or maybe 2), the wall is pretty much ready to go. Block is considerably slower as each block has to be laid individually and then the cores filled with rebar and cement for strength. Just MHO, but it makes no sense to me to pay someone to lay a bunch of blocks only to have to fill them with cement. Why not just have the wall poured in the first place. Were I to do it again, I would probably go with the foam forms, and pour in them.
Steve
I talked to the builder and he said he could block it for less than ten. And I think I may go this route especially since he is going to be the one to have to build off it.
Thanks for the input I'm sure I will be asking tons of stupid questions in the future. I hate not knowing about stuff [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Having enough troble trying to master my welding class. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Patrick
What you guys are fogetting about pouring are the forms. A good set of forms these days will go for a hundred thousand. It costs $3-5k to rent a set. Also the concrete is very expensive as well and you have alot of labor in putting together the forms and such. A good block layer crew can put a wall together in about the same amount of time it takes a crew to form, pour, and tear down the forms.
We have a walk-out basement with 9' ceilings. My builder recommended block because all of the local subs were set up to pour 8' (maybe even shorter) walls. He claimed that it would be very expensive to get the taller walls formed.
By the way - my block walls have horizontal and vertical rebar. The voids with vertical bar were also filled with concrete. The rest of the voids are full of perlite for insulation. Its been 10 years now and I haven't seen a crack yet.
I thought I wanted ICF but immediate local folk aren't used to it so the choices were block or cast. If the work is done by pro contractor then I agree that building a good block wall and then casting it full of crete is wasteful. I wanted strength and am insulating the outside of the cast wall with Owens Corning Insul-Drain (R-11 insulation and drainage mat in one foul swoop).
If I were doing the labor myself.. Let me rephrase that.. When I did the labor myself building a safe room for my mom, I dry stacked 12 inch wide "knockout" blocks which flow concrete horizontally even better than bond beam blocks. Use a level to keep the wall plumb and keep each course level by placing small pieces of gravel in the seams (they will leak a few drops of dirty water but not significant quantities of concrete. I used rebar in every cell and every course (8 inch centers vert and horiz) but that was for an above ground safe room and perhaps more than needed for a basement or foundation/stem wall.
The reason I won't hire a contractor to "LAY" blocks and then 100% grout and I will dry stack them and 100% fill them myself is that it is easier for me to lay the block than build the forms for anything over a few feet high. Your skills may differ.
I personally don't like block wall basements but that is because of all the expansive soil problems I have seen. If you have stable soil and good drainage, block can work fine.
I do recommend insulalting on the outside of the wall and using some kind of drainage mat or equivalent to prevent a head of water on the wall. A good drainage mat or equivalent like Insul-Drain prevents standing water. Any water that gets to the wall falls to the botom of the product where it is carried off by the french drain (draining to daylight if topography permits or to a sump pump if it doesn't). Even a severely cracked wall will not leak with a properly installed drainage mat and french drain.
There is a product caled "Cactus Board" that guarantees a dry basement floor. It is simple to install and cheap and WORKS. Maybe a couple hundred bucks for a good sized basement.
I intended to use Cactus Board but the concrete sub builds basements a bit different than I expected and cactus board can't be used. My finished slab floor top in the walkout basement being built is about 18-20 inches above the top of the footer, has 2 inches of rigid foam over 16-18 inches of 1 1/2 inch washed gravel, 10 mil StegoWrap over that and then rebar mat. There is a 4 inch perforated drain pipe around the inside of the slab at footer height. It is covered by 1 1/2/ inch gravel and wrapped in geotextile. After the walls are cast I will place another 4 inch perf drain pipe at footer level on the outside of the wall, covered in gravel, wrapped in geotextile and drained to daylight just above a pond (5-6 ft drop in less than 200 ft run). This outer drain will accept water from the Insul-Drain covering on the outside of the cast walls (10 ft high).
I will be building the master suite wing as slab-on-grade next to the portion of the house over the walkout basement. I have revisited the ICF option and have plans out to the Polysteel rep for their engineering staff to consider. Polysteel has recently added an ICF to their product line that looks very well matched to my requirement. It has no waffle section, no post and beam, just two flat EPS walls with expanded metal bridging the sides together. Should fill nicely without voids and simplify finishing out the BUNKER (master suite is safe room). Otherwise, we would be building a 6 sided concrete box and then building a conventional stud wall building inside of that. ICF is form, insulation, and steel strips to accept drywall screws (like used with metal studs) all in one. Will make installing hydronic radiant heat in the ceiling pretty simple.
I would have had more ICF in the house if the "new" style was available earlier. CowboyDoc hit the nail squarely on the head with his form comments. If labor here wasn't a bit cheap compared to average, the forming system being used on my walkout basement would drive the price up. They use 3/4 inch plywood with a special top layer like waterproof masonite. They drill holes in it and use steel wire connectors to tie the inside and outside forms together. Camlocks secure the ties on the outside of the forms and after the crete hardens they snap off the ends of the ties and leave the rest in the crete. It is labor intensive but we aren't paying $20/hr for labor like some parts of civilization. The forms are reused till they deteriorate. The form material is called BB O&ES plywood or so it says on my receipt. It is $29.69 per 4x8 sheet. Luckily it gets reused.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
My first choice wouild be ICF - if for whatever reason you can't do that, second choice would be pre cast concrete - didn't see it mentioned yet. Foundation is poured at factory under controlled conditions allowing superior curing. Uses 6000psi concrete, studs are already in place for finishing and they get craned into place. Foundation's up in a day. Sections get bolted together. Have always had block myself but don't like it and wouldn't build with it if I had a choice.
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