Thinking of trying wind power from a wind turbine. Anyone every go the this route? Any problems? We have friends off the grid with solar and on cloudy days they may not have enough electric, but it's usually windy here- any suggestions? What are the costs, options? Anyone every build their own system? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Haven't actually built anything yet, but I have done some research. All of the commercial systems I've looked at are stupid expensive and unlikely to every pay back the cost of the investment. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Capacity is very minimal (like 5 KW, if memory serves), but this wouldn't be bad if the price was right.
I did look at some systems which used car alternators as the power source and even though they were stupid expensive, it got me thinking: the biggest use of electricity in a house with electric hot water is hot water (unless the house is heated electrically). I have oil fired radiant heat, so most of my heating needs could be met with hot water too.
Now much of the cost of these wicked expensive systems is the inverter/power regulator set up because you need 110 volts @ 60 Hz, more or less, plus a storage system to smooth things out when the wind slows down, at least if you are using it for TVs and the like.
As it happens (trust me on this) it is easy to make a heater which is very tolerant of voltage and completely tolerant of frequency. So, what I'm considering is using windpower to heat water electrically off unregulated power. I can store hot water very efficiently and cheaply, especially since the wind is almost always blowing where I am, especially in winter.
So, I have been thinking mostly on the windmill design. I figure I'll have to measure the wind speed, etc, for a few months before taking the next step.
Of course, I'm assuming the town planners won't be 100% opposed to a windmill, being as I'm in the country, but youl never know.
Brian,
I had a solar catalog once that that DC elements for water heaters. If I understood what they were trying to tell me, these are for systems that produce more power than necessary. Apparently when the battery bank is full and there is too little power draw, a switch can be set to automatically kick on the heating element. Why that would be necessary, I have no idea.
Steve
The problem they were trying to solve is that you really can't store electricity that well, batteries are expensive, and eventually they get charged up, but the windmill is still turning. So, you could do something with the power or feather the blades or something.
I am currious: were the elements just there to load the system? If so, although wastful, I've seen this done before on certain power supplies and old Cushman golf carts. Heating water with extra power makes more sense.
I bet they were charging a bundle for the elements, though.
In any event, there si nothing special about heating water with electricity, although you have do do a bit of basic math to get the values right.
I believe the elements were being sold for the purpose of heating the water, but only when the batteries were full and the home wasn't drawing enough power to fully load the system. It's been a couple of years since I had the catalog, but as I recall the price for the elements wasn't too offensive. (At least not when compared to everything else solar and wind. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] ) Maybe around $25.00 each, I'm thinking. I wondered how much physical difference there really is between DC elements and AC elements. Are they the same and just re-packaged?
Steve
There difference between AC and DC for elements is not really that important, unlike most things like motors and the like which will fry if designed for one and hooked up to the other. An element is a resistive load, most other stuff is a reactive load, meaning the frequency matters a whole lot.
This doesn't mean that you can just hook up a water heater to an unregulated source willy nilly because you could overload the generator or the element. But with a little electronic design you can create a system which requires neither a regulated voltage nor a regulated frequency or a sine wave output. Many AC things can tolerate variable voltage a little, but have to have 60Hz and a clean sine wave.
Anyways, I envisaged simple ladder arrangement where I would cut in an increasing load as the generator spun up. I'd actually use alternators because they are cheap and available, etc..
Brian,
Were you around on the tractor site when we researched "Minto's wheel"? If not, you should pop over and have a look. It was a fun thread.
Steve
EarthMom, You need to get your hands on a few issues of "Home Power" magazine, the alternative power bible published monthly by guys with politics so far to the left that they though Marx, Trotsky, and Lennin were radical rightists.
Lots of real good stuff on solar, wind, hydro, bio-diesel, and so forth. Not pie in the sky bye and bye but real down to earth stuff. Many articles of completed working projects, with pictures, schematics, parts lists, contacts, etc. Plenty of info and advertisers for wind power.
Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Thanks Pat. I think I will get the magazine. Just went on their website. I think it's just the info I'm looking for. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
EarthMom, Some of their letters to the editor have asked some rather pointed questions about payback and usually there is no economic justification for projects in there magazine. You do it 'cause you want to, usually. Hydro can be a real good deal if you have the water volume and head all year. Wind is a pretty iffy thing and PV is just not readdy for prime time, i.e. compete with the grid on equal footing. If you have a remote cabin where the cost of utility poles and installation is prohibitive then of course wind and PV can make sense.
I have 12-14 amps at 12 volt PV capacity atop my camper. I can run my swamp cooler in the desert while watching sat TV adn not deplete my batteries. I have a propane generator to run the microwave oven.
There are sites where you can get Government data on wind for your approximate location. Of course you want to know averages but also peaks and duration of lulls. It is suprising how windy we may think a site is and how really poor of a candidate it is for a wind generator installaltion. Do some reading and you will soon learn the validity of a lot of "souds good but isn't practical" DIY schemes.
Note: Yes you can use an automotive alternator to make a wind generator. I have looked into this seriously. I have not found a single long term success. Someone always has to be the first to "get it right" but a lot of folks have tried and failed. There are several reasons this isn't a provident project but don't let my nay saying stop you if you have time and money on your hands. Shucks, I know folks who believe in perpetual motion machines, Tesla's secrets, and on and on. Most of them are relatively harmless.
Patrick
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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