I'm the same way with my laying hens. A lot of people turn over half their flock every year to maximize production. Mine "retire" and live out their natural lifespan in comfort. I don't get as many eggs, and it costs me more for feed, but I figure they earned it, and they keep the bugs down.
I've never heard of anybody that could afford to "retire" their dairy cows, but good for him!
>>I've never heard of anybody that could afford to "retire" their dairy cows, but good for him
Yikes, its one thing to feed a chicken in its old age, but I wouldn't want to foot the bill for feed for a cow that aint working anymore...
I want to raise and slaughter my own meat...and have been working up the nerve for months now, reading books to learn and trying to convince myself that I can do it..eaier said than done but eventually I'll take the plunge...
Sure would be easier if I had grown up on a farm or hunted as a kid...guess its all what you are used to. My guess is that after the first few times you get over it, like anything else?
Any of you guys slaughter your own livestock? If so, what kind, and how did you learn to do it?
That's what I'm in "hobby farming" for: To raise as much of my own meat and veggies as possible on my little patch.
I slaughter my own chickens, partly from remembering watching Mom and Dad do it on the farm, and partly from learning as I go.
The BIG reason I don't do my own lambs (other than it would be a bit hard to kill the little cuties) is that I don't have a suitable place to hang/chill/age them, and also getting rid of the offal is quite a problem.
Several folks I know also slaughter and cut their own pigs.
Cows would be quite a challenge, due to the size, and also the hanging/chilling/aging thing.
We've always slaughtered our own from cows to chickens to pigs and sheep. I guess what it comes down to is if you ever had to feed your family from making a living with farming or ranching. It's one thing to be a hobby farmer and have another job to pay the bills. It's quite another to depend on every single animal to pay the bills and more times than not you don't have enough to pay the bills. Changes your outlook on things quite a bit.
I don't have a problem slaughtering (i.e. having someone else slaughter) my animals and then enjoying the feast. What I was really wondering is how many people actually do the killing and butchering themselves. Not sure that has anything to do with "hobby" farmers (a term I really don't like)vs. "professional" farmers.
I know of small (some would call hobby) farmers that do their own killing and butchering right on site, and I know of professional farmers that have a custom butchershop do it for them.
I suspect that very few people wouldn't be able to do their own killing/butchering if it was a choice between living or dying...professional farmer or "hobby" farmer.
I don't make a distinction between "hobby" farmers and "professional" farmers anyway...a farmer is a farmer. Is a big farm that loses a lot of money more "professional" (or more "real") than a small farm that is profitable?
In my mind, a "professional" farm that relies on taxpayer bailouts to stay in business is less of a "real" farm than the guy up the street who manages to put food on his families table, cover his costs and still eck out a small (non-taxpayer assisted) profit to pay his other bills is much more a "real" farmer in my mind. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
I see what you're getting at, and I agree that farm size has nothing to do with it.
I call myself a "hobby" farmer for some of the reasons Cowboydoc pointed out. I do not depend on any income from what I do. In fact, the way I go about it, and the money I have invested in equipment and buildings and such, it's a darn good thing I have a retirement income AND a part time job.
I'm not enough of a business man or risk taker to make a go of "real" farming. I raise critters because I enjoy the process, and I certainly enjoy the fruits of my labors. In a good year, I can sell enough lambs to pay my feed and butchering bills, and I call that 'breaking even' by discounting my own labor. If I factored in the stress relief, the enjoyment I get from dubbing around on my old tractors and the enjoyment I get from neighbors (and perfect strangers that stop in the road) talking about and looking at my animals, I could even make a case for having made a profit.
I live right in the middle of a small village in an area where ther is only one other 'farm' of any description within 30 miles that I'm aware of. The older folks stop and remenisce (sp?) about when "Old So-and-so kept cattle" and the younger ones are fascinated with the lambs. LOTS of folks have put flat spots on their tires while driving by when they get their first look at my llama [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
If someone wants to call themselves a "hobby" farmer than I certainly have no problem with it [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . More often than not however when I hear the term "hobby" farmer, it is not meant as a compliment; at least around wher I live. Maybe its just a local thing around me where we have a mix of big "professional" farms, and a lot of smaller farms that are self-sustaining and perhaps have a farm-stand to sell some of the extras...while the "big" farmers will usually look down their noses at the small farmers, as soon as the weather or market doesn't cooperate, the "big" farmers go running to the govt for their check...while the small farmer rolls with the punches like has been done for the past 350 (or more) years in this country.
You missed my point. I don't care if a person is a hobby farmer or a professional farmer. One is not better than the other or anything else. I also never used the term hobby farmer or professional farmer. I said making a living and counting on your operations to make a profit makes a big difference in how you do things and the freedom to do those things. Alot of things can be done a small scale basis and you can make a little money, ie farmers market. But can you make a living with a farmers market? Most cases no. Can you make a $30-50k a year job of it, pay your health insurance, have a 401k, put away for your kids education, take 2 week vacations to Hawaii, etc. NO. You can't even do that for the most part on any farming/ranching operation!!! You can make a little cash and profit from your crop. But most people don't take into account all of their expenses. They just look at it that they made a profit from the expense of putting in the crop. It's also impossible to do some of the things large scale that you can do small scale.
It's easy to make decisions based on how you "might" make money. Rich Z is a great guy and I respect the way he does things. Rich also has a nice place, quite a few acres, and some nice animals. If he had to make the payments from his farming operation opposed to his regular job he might not be able to afford his place or have all the animals that he has just for pets. But he's having fun and enjoys the way he's doing things so that's great. I consider Rich a friend. I don't agree with his views but I respect the way he's doing things. I'd have Rich over anytime to my place and I'd help him out anyway that I could. But to make a living from it or pay for Rosie's feed or to make it a model for others to follow to make a farm work is not there. He's trying to figure something out to make it profitable his way and I wish him luck. But he couldn't have gotten everything he has now from running his place the way he does.
I guess I'm a little more hardened than alot of you because it's been my family and friends that have tryed to the bone to make farms and ranches work. I've watched them lose it all even though they worked 20 hours a day. Then I have seen environment. and wholistic farmers/ranchers come in and buy the place and run it to not make a profit but to try and put other farmers/ranchers out of business so their rich friends can come in and buy the ground. Then they turn the place into a sanctuary and horde all the elk and deer, buffalo, etc. They build fences, cut off water supplies, etc.
Now certainly everyone has the right to buy land, do what they want to, etc. My only point is that it's a completely different story when the money to run the ranch has to come from the stock or crops you raise and you don't have a regular salary to fall back on. Everything I make doesn't go into a stock portfolio, well a little of it but not much, it goes into buying land and cattle. I could never, even with help, have gotten what I have from trying to make it as a rancher. I only make it because of my "real" job. Heck I don't even consider myself a "real" rancher. I guess I have too much respect for the guys and gals that make this work without a regular job to consider myself equal to them. I saw it growing up and I knew I would never be able to make it that way. I didn't want to just take over a place. I wanted to earn my place. I'm no different than any of you out there that has a regular job to pay for their farm/ranch.
With regard to making it work from govt. payments. Well if you'd like to see our entire farming economy collapse then you can sure do away with farm programs. I don't know one farmer that thinks they are a good idea. You need to know the whole story here as well which is way beyone the scope of this forum or my time to write here right now [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . The commodity price is just about completely controlled by the govt. and a few commodity buyers. The govt. has allowed there to be a monopoly in commodity buying. As a farmer you have one or two choices to sell your crop to. The govt. has developed the farming subsidy program to control the price of food. Allowing commodity brokers to monopolize was part of this process. Then the govt. can also control and know every little thing about your operation when you get govt. money. As a person actually making a living from the land you have no choice but to participate in govt. programs. Without them any farmer out there would be broke in a year or two. Believe me farmers fight every year for control of their commodity and the market.
You've already seen alot of the outfall. That is why so many of you can buy land now. It used to be that farmland would stay in a family forever. If it was sold it was sold in big lots. Small guys couldn't afford to buy 200 or more acres. Now kids that grew up farming know that farming/ranching is an extremely tough life and they see what it has done to their families. That land is then sold off when their parents, grandparents die. It's subdivided and now people are able to buy small tracts of land. The land itself anymore is worth more than a person could make at farming or ranching. You can't buy land anymore and expect to make the payments to farm it and make a living. Thus you see one of two things happen. The big farms/ranches get bigger and bigger developing into major corporations. Then you see smaller "hobby" farms crop up. You can't make a living from the ground but people see it as a good way of life and have fun farming a little piece of ground. Nothing wrong with that. But remember we still need the big farmers/ranchers to make the food that really feeds the world. I guess I'm just a voice here that points out the other side. I don't mean to put anyone down so please don't take it that way, but none of the people on this board, myself included, are what I would call a real farmer or rancher. We're doing what we want we want the way we want to do it because that's what we want to do with our free time. We aren't doing it to make a living.
I also challenge you to show me a "real" farmer that you are talking about that actually pays the payments for the land, equipment, etc. and makes enough of a profit to support a family. Yes some guys make a "little" profit with farming but it's not enough to make their land payment, buy their equipment, and put money in the bank to live on. It's easy to make a little money on a part-time farm because you don't consider everything. You don't take into consideration the price it cost to get the land and your house. You didn't make the money for the down payment from farming. You probably didn't buy the equipment with money from farming either.
There is mostly certainly a distinction between part-time farmers and ranchers. It's a huge difference. You have a freedom and decisions that you don't have when you have to depend on your crop/livestock for a living. There is a very slim margin to making a living with farming/ranching. You have to take advantage of every avenue available to you to make it all work. Everything you enter into is not done for "fun" but is done to make a profit so you don't lose your place. Is one better than the other? Certainly not. Everything and everyone has free choices. I may not like the ideas and the way alot of people run their places but that is not my choice and everyone is free to do with their place what they feel is right. I'm not condmning or judging anyone. I'm just pointing out the other side in alot of this. I don't dislike or disrespect anyone on these boards. I think it's great that everyone is getting into farming/ranching and enjoying the land. Just remember the guys that have to make it on the basis of their land alone and not a regular job. These guys are my heroes I guess. They know they could make more money, work half the hours, and have less stress and a regular income. Yet they choose to live the life they do. Yes it's their choice but they are still to be put on a different level than those of that do this as a side job. Are they better people than you and I are. No. Everybody has their job and place in society. No job in my opinion is any better or worse than another one. But I do feel feel farmers/ranchers deserve some respect and I don't think we should compare ourselves to them or put our places on the same level.
And when all the producers of edible products become " Urbanites" working for "The Man" producing plastic widgets how then will we aleviate the stomach's hunger pangs?
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