Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?

[Autotech]

I will soon be making settlement on my new/old home. Today I had an opportunity to walk around parts of the property I hadn't seen before, namely the 14 or so acres in the back currently being farmed by a local farmer. Parts of this 14 acres lie along residential back yards, and as near as I can tell some of these neighbors have taken advantage of the situation and extended their back yards into the field. Some by just a bit, some not at all, and a couple appear to have woodpiles, sheds, and junk well over where it looks like the property line should be.
At some point I hope to take over operation of this part of the property, and with only 14 acres of tillable land (unless I'm willing to give up 1 or 2 of the small pastures) I suspect I'll want to use as much of it as I can.
So my thinking is this - If I have the property surveyed and marked now, right after I move in, people will be expecting a change anyway and might not be so upset. If I wait they'll all assume it's ok and go right on with things the way they are, then if I decide I really need those last few yards later it may become more problematic.
Also, I'm hoping that if I have it surveyed and marked now, simply installing a few well spaced posts will be a sufficient reminder rather than having to go to a complete perimeter fence. Lots of expense, maintainance, and aggravation, as well as a hinderance to the local wildlife.

I don't want to create a lot of ill will - I plan on bringing animals back onto this property (haven't been any for about a year) and these people are the parents of the kids my children will go to school with. On the other hand land isn't cheap and plentiful around here, and whats mine is mine.

Any thoughts??


Gregg

[gauthier]

I would try to get a survey of just the one side of your property that is in question,this is just to reaffirm you of where the line is,and it won,t cost to much if they don't have to do all the paper work [drawing up a map].This is what I had done, but state laws vary,but shouldn't in this,just for information.Then I would know for sure how much people [if any] were trespassing.Then go from there.If somebody is stupid enough to spend money building on,or using someone elses property and don't[or pretend not to] know where there property line is,than you shouldn't be impressed with what they think one way or another.After you know where your line is than maybe all you will have to do is put up some posted signs[metal tee posts work good with signs attached to pressure treated plywood and attached to posts with u clamps],you could even run a strand of barbed wire along them just to make it look more like afence,you can't keep a thief out with even a very good fence if they don't respect it.Talk to any one who is tresspassing before you put up posts.If they don't want to go along than you will have to get one of those things called a lawyer,because you can put then up and they could take them down,cussing, fistfights,gunshots,etc..But you should do this a.s.a.p. or you'll end up owning what other people let you have basicly.Don't ever worry about making somebody who has already wronged you mad,it just encourges them, or at least thats my opinion. RICHARD GAUTHIER

[chrisjbell]

You want that survey done, and done fast. If people are already taking over your land, you've got trouble. Some of them may have bought their places with the impression that the yards are bigger than they really are and may think that you would be taking over their land.

This is one of the scariest stories I've seen lately - and it is a true one - mdbarb's saga. Get your survey done, put some *permanent* posts in, especially where people are already moving in, and if anyone gives you a hard time, do not back down or you'll have issues.

That leased thing sounds like trouble to me. BTW, if you don't have a lease with the farmer I'd suggest this. Talk to the person and find out what they think the deal is. If it is OK with you, go with it. But if it is anything less than what you want, let them know *in writing* (and an attorney might come in handy here) that they're out and you're the new owner with different plans.

I don't think they can come after you, although they might be able to put a wrench into the sale. But unless they have something that has been deeded to the land, when ownership passes to you they shouldn't have a claim (BTW, IANAL - I have no qualifications to hand out legal advice). But you should get an attorney to do a quick checkup of the situation. Dealing with it now will save you lots of headaches later.

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue">… some of these neighbors have taken advantage of the situation and extended their back yards into the field… a couple appear to have woodpiles, sheds, and junk well over where it looks like the property line should be…</font color>

Depending on the circumstances, especially length of time… some of these bordering “neighbors” may qualify for adverse possession against this property (you don’t officially own yet). Even after you have a survey done, pay out your money &amp; get “title” (piece of paper) to the “17 acres”, you could potentially end up in court with each one of these neighbors individually if they decide to claim adverse possession against you…

PA brief -“…who claims title by adverse possession must prove actual, continuous, exclusive, visible, notorious, distinct and hostile possession of the land for twenty-one years…”

<font color="blue">… get a survey of just the one side of your property…</font color>

Even if you only “asked” for a survey of “one corner” of the property… a survey will be conducted on the “entire parcel” to achieve the accurate results of “only one corner” or “just one side”… so you might as well do it right and pay for a survey of the “entire parcel”…

To get an idea of what you may be up against, you may want to check the deeds of all those bordering neighbors and find out first who has been there over “21 years”… they are your potential problems…

[egon]

John Miller3

Excellent advice.

Egon

John gave you great advice on the land encroachment. On the farmland though you may not have any choice but to rent to him this year. Most states enforce the Sept. 1 rule for farmland that is leased. Most states will also enforce a verbal agreement with farming as well. What this means #1 is that if you buy the land now the farmer will have the right to farm that ground this year without your ok because he already had an agreement for this year from the previous owner. Also what this could mean is that there are verbal contracts for longer periods. For instance last year I planted an alfalfa field on some ground I leased from a neighbor. Our agreement is that I get to farm that ground for six years. The reason is because it's very expensive to put in an alfalfa crop. Your first year isn't very good usually, second year is better. But it's usually around the third year that it really starts producing. Also some farmers will spend alot of time to get an area cleared. They will do this in exchange for a longer period of rent. You will need to get up with the farmer leasing the ground and the present owner AT THE SAME TIME to get an accurate account of what their agreement is.

[herbenus]

Barbed wire. Just do it. I would talk to them. Tell them you plan to run barbed wire along property line so they have time to remove their stuff. I think the fence will create less ill will then a bunch of no trespassing signs. Although you could put signs up as well. The fence will help to eliminate future problems. People will "forget", new neighbors will move in, etc. Your land will always be a temptation for walking the dog, tree houses, deer blinds, wood piles, junk piles, etc. The fence will help.

[Stoneheartfarm]

It's 22 years in PA? Only 15 in Michigan.

Steve

[Autotech]

Great info so far - thanks!!

A bit of additional information/clarification:

The neighbors who seem to be encroaching are in a development that was carved out of this property some years ago. I don't know the exact date, but I'm pretty sure it has been no more than 10 or so.

Also, I'm not interested in displacing the leasing farmer yet (see other post), in fact I hope he'll be willing to continue working this ground until we're ready to take it on. I mentioned the lease only to indicate that the property owner is no longer actively involved in the outer reaches of the property, and due to effective plowing margins the lessor probably doesn't care.

Gregg

[mikell]

Let them know first thing you will be taking your property back then before they get a chance to reply put in the fence post. Don't wait even a week. Just looked at a forclosure in Frankenmuth with problems. One guy started taking more once he found out about the forclosure. I informed the bank I would be taking control without warning upon sale. Fence will be up within 48 hrs.

mikell