With all this talk about welding and welders, I made a trip to TSC and was looking at the Hobart welders (both mig and stick) when I noticed the welding rods. Upon inspecting them, I saw Aluminum rods [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img]
Has anyone had any experience stick welding aluminum instead of using a mig welder ?
Another question... I've noticed some welder specs show they they are good for 3/16 or 1/4" welds... Am I correct in the assumption that they are talking welds in a single pass. ?
Example Aluminum welders are stating 1/8" ... So if I were to to be welding a 1/4" I could use 3 passes to weld ? Or are they talking maximum depth (penitration) of the weld ?
The truth is, they are not speaking welder langauge,at least not my kind.When you are welding two pieces of metal together,you use as many passes as it takes to do this, i.e.,if you are welding 1 inch thick steel to one inch thick steel,by way of a beveled butt joint,and say you are useing 5/32 rod,its going to take you many passes to fill up the joint ,side by side and on top of each other,now as far as the machine,it will have to put out enough amps. to run that 5/32 rod,you can always turn it down to run a1/8 rod.It also depends on what postion you are welding,you can carry more molten metal in the flat postion than you can overhead,thus it should take you less passes.Unless you are doing something like surfaceing[building up the surface by running beads],you are not really going to worry about how thick your bead may be,you are going to run the amps needed for whatever sized filler you are using in order to make an acceptable weld.So worry about amps. and duty cycle when you plan on buying a machine,not how big a bead the machine might make.For instance,you can weld about any thickness of steel,from 1/4 inch[or less if you know what you are doing],to infinity,with a 1/8 dia. stick rod, the thicker it is the more passes its going to take,a 1/8 stick rod uses about 120 amps,+ or -,so you need a stick machine that puts out that much,than you got to worry about duty cycle,if what you are welding is in the infinity range,well you need something that will burn those 1/8 inch rods all day long,100% on the amps you need[in this farout case]. It works in the same manner with a m.i.g. machine. RICHARD GAUTHIER
Ok, you confirmed what I know, but when they (mfg) state 1/8" , 3/16" or 1/4"... Are they talking penitration at maximum amps ?
What about aluminum stick welding ?
I was looking at the Hobart 175 for $600 (not to mention the added expense of gas) and the Hobart stick welder at $250. I noticed that I will need Argon Gas to aluminum weld... But considering that I will need to weld 1/8" to 1/4" aluminum stock on occasions. I was wondering if anyone did any aluminum stick welding with any success ?
Like I said before,don't let that incorrect phrasing of it saying 1/4",e.t.c. affect you,the don't know what they are trying to say.READ what I said to you above again. You[if you can weld alu. with a m.i.g.]won't have any problems welding1/2" thick alu.,with most any M.I.G. MACHINE,YOU JUST MAY HAVE TO MAKE MORE THAN ONE PASS.You only want to weld alu. with stick,if you don't have a m.i.g.,sticking alu.is not all that easy and not as an attractive weld as compared with m.i.g. As far as penatration goes,you only need as much as it takes to make two pieces of metal one.As long as your weld is solid,no trapped slag,porosity,e.t.c.,and you have complete fusion at the edges of your weld to your base metal,it does not matter how far into your base metal you have burned,1/16",or1/4",you have made two pieces,one,and thats what welding is all about,basicly. I don,t know of any hobart stick welder for 250 dollars,new?It much not be much. Speaking of welding alu. with stick,I believe you need d.c. electrode postive to do that,most of those cheap buzz boxes only put out a.c. RICHARD GAUTHIER p.s I'm glad I confirmed what you [already know],huh,huh.
Richard, I know how to weld stick and the theory of welding... thank you very much.
What I don't know and lack any experience in, is Alum welding and/or mig welding. The welding (20 yrs ago) I did was with commercial welders and NOT these hobby boxes that is sold to the general public.
Now since I'm thinking of buying a welder for repairs and small projects, I'm trying to find something that will suit my needs without spending a $1000 for something that will sit in the corner most of the time. So since I have no experience with migs, I was inquiring about alum stick welding... if its even worth the bother. That is why I was asking what they were talking about with the 1/8,3/16,1/4"
I guess I'm going to be stuck buying a mig welder since I need quality alum welds (I'm sure it will take lots of practice on my part first) [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]
Also,you got to keep in mind that there are different kinds of joints,butt,tee,lap,and different kinds of weld joint designs,v-groove,sguare groove,fillit and many more.Now if you are running a fillit weld on a lap or t joint,you generally try to put a weld on that is no larger than the thinnest of your two base metals.You can use more than one pass to do this if your first pass isn't big enough,i.e.,1" plate to 1/2" plate,by stringing or by weaveing. Another thought,a certain sized filler metal,will only operate with acceptable results,within a certain range of amps. and volts,so you can take a 1/8" stick rod,0n a 1/4" plate,turn that machine up to about 180 amps. d.c.e.p,and you can make a very big hole real quick.Talk about penatration.Penatration depends on many factors,type of and how much current,type of filler,and when m.i.g. welding,one of the chief ways,is the type and mixture of shieding gas.Penatration also means different things,depending on what type of joint you are welding,if you are welding a pipe joint,with a v-groove prep.,than penatration on that joint refers to the inside of the pipe at the root[if you got it or not,how much,and if both inside edges are fused.].So when these welding machine litature descriptions say will weld 1/4" thick stuff,you see,it doesn't mean a lot in describing that machine.If you want a machine to weld both alu. and steel ,and you just want one machine, get a m.i.g. machine,with as much amps. and the best duty cycle you can afford,and hook up,[input juice wise].Yes you will need to change gas,wire,drive rollers and probably go with a different liner in your wire conduit,to weld alu. and then spend time setting up your machine after each time you change from steel to alu.,but that is the way it goes. RICHARD GAUTHIER
I'm sure you do know much about this welding stuff,it sure sounded like it to me anyways.How long you been driving trucks?I've been in this welding racket for about 26 years,SORRY TO HAVE INSULTED YOUR WELDING KNOWLEGE. RICHARD GAUTHIER
I think there are many out there who have appreciated the welding knowledge you and some others have been giving in your posts.
There is a lot more than to it than strike an arc and run a bead. You fellows have been bringing this out for all our benefit.
Thanks egon,I'll keep pluging along every now and than,my advice on this welding stuff is free,and I don't do that to many other places. RICHARD GAUTHIER
First, I can be of zero help on the aluminum question. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
On another topic, though, I can tell you that I have a little Hobart 175 MIG welder which claims 1/4" and that refers to a single pass. In the case of my particular machine, it specifically states that in so many words--"Capable of welding up to 1/4" in a single pass." I would assume that's pretty much standard as the way they are 'rated.'
I would have to assume that aluminum is done the same way. I'm guessing that something listing 1/8" aluminum is referring to the ability to weld 1/8" in a single pass.
If you were to be welding 1/4" aluminum you could certainly use multiple passes with a 1/8" rated machine. You might be able to get it with three passes but, being the kind of guy who wears a belt with suspenders, I'd probably lay down six passes just to be sure. Just remember that with multiple passes (three, six, ten, fifteen, twenty-one... whatever), the first pass is always going to be the most important. That's the one that directly bonds the two pieces. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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