With all this talk about welding and welders, I made a trip to TSC and was looking at the Hobart welders (both mig and stick) when I noticed the welding rods. Upon inspecting them, I saw Aluminum rods [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img]
Has anyone had any experience stick welding aluminum instead of using a mig welder ?
Another question... I've noticed some welder specs show they they are good for 3/16 or 1/4" welds... Am I correct in the assumption that they are talking welds in a single pass. ?
Example Aluminum welders are stating 1/8" ... So if I were to to be welding a 1/4" I could use 3 passes to weld ? Or are they talking maximum depth (penitration) of the weld ?
The truth is, they are not speaking welder langauge,at least not my kind.When you are welding two pieces of metal together,you use as many passes as it takes to do this, i.e.,if you are welding 1 inch thick steel to one inch thick steel,by way of a beveled butt joint,and say you are useing 5/32 rod,its going to take you many passes to fill up the joint ,side by side and on top of each other,now as far as the machine,it will have to put out enough amps. to run that 5/32 rod,you can always turn it down to run a1/8 rod.It also depends on what postion you are welding,you can carry more molten metal in the flat postion than you can overhead,thus it should take you less passes.Unless you are doing something like surfaceing[building up the surface by running beads],you are not really going to worry about how thick your bead may be,you are going to run the amps needed for whatever sized filler you are using in order to make an acceptable weld.So worry about amps. and duty cycle when you plan on buying a machine,not how big a bead the machine might make.For instance,you can weld about any thickness of steel,from 1/4 inch[or less if you know what you are doing],to infinity,with a 1/8 dia. stick rod, the thicker it is the more passes its going to take,a 1/8 stick rod uses about 120 amps,+ or -,so you need a stick machine that puts out that much,than you got to worry about duty cycle,if what you are welding is in the infinity range,well you need something that will burn those 1/8 inch rods all day long,100% on the amps you need[in this farout case]. It works in the same manner with a m.i.g. machine. RICHARD GAUTHIER
Ok, you confirmed what I know, but when they (mfg) state 1/8" , 3/16" or 1/4"... Are they talking penitration at maximum amps ?
What about aluminum stick welding ?
I was looking at the Hobart 175 for $600 (not to mention the added expense of gas) and the Hobart stick welder at $250. I noticed that I will need Argon Gas to aluminum weld... But considering that I will need to weld 1/8" to 1/4" aluminum stock on occasions. I was wondering if anyone did any aluminum stick welding with any success ?
Like I said before,don't let that incorrect phrasing of it saying 1/4",e.t.c. affect you,the don't know what they are trying to say.READ what I said to you above again. You[if you can weld alu. with a m.i.g.]won't have any problems welding1/2" thick alu.,with most any M.I.G. MACHINE,YOU JUST MAY HAVE TO MAKE MORE THAN ONE PASS.You only want to weld alu. with stick,if you don't have a m.i.g.,sticking alu.is not all that easy and not as an attractive weld as compared with m.i.g. As far as penatration goes,you only need as much as it takes to make two pieces of metal one.As long as your weld is solid,no trapped slag,porosity,e.t.c.,and you have complete fusion at the edges of your weld to your base metal,it does not matter how far into your base metal you have burned,1/16",or1/4",you have made two pieces,one,and thats what welding is all about,basicly. I don,t know of any hobart stick welder for 250 dollars,new?It much not be much. Speaking of welding alu. with stick,I believe you need d.c. electrode postive to do that,most of those cheap buzz boxes only put out a.c. RICHARD GAUTHIER p.s I'm glad I confirmed what you [already know],huh,huh.
Richard, I know how to weld stick and the theory of welding... thank you very much.
What I don't know and lack any experience in, is Alum welding and/or mig welding. The welding (20 yrs ago) I did was with commercial welders and NOT these hobby boxes that is sold to the general public.
Now since I'm thinking of buying a welder for repairs and small projects, I'm trying to find something that will suit my needs without spending a $1000 for something that will sit in the corner most of the time. So since I have no experience with migs, I was inquiring about alum stick welding... if its even worth the bother. That is why I was asking what they were talking about with the 1/8,3/16,1/4"
I guess I'm going to be stuck buying a mig welder since I need quality alum welds (I'm sure it will take lots of practice on my part first) [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]
I'm sure you do know much about this welding stuff,it sure sounded like it to me anyways.How long you been driving trucks?I've been in this welding racket for about 26 years,SORRY TO HAVE INSULTED YOUR WELDING KNOWLEGE. RICHARD GAUTHIER
One thing I haven't seen metioned here is the type of rod your using also determines the penitration. A 6010,6011,6013 will penitrate more of the base metal with the same heat as compared to a 7014 and a little more than a 7018 all other things being similiar.
What I typically do is to run one (or 2) beads of the 6013 rod, then if the weld still needs filled or "pretty'ed-up" I'll run a pass or 2 with the 7014-7018.
The key to getting a proper weld is to have good penitration into the base metal of both sides of the joint. This creates a solid, no cracks, or occlusions in the joint. Some of the fillet weld will add strength to the joint, but mainly it's the first pass that bonds the two peices together and provides the base for all future passes.
Will a weld hold if not a perfect weld... very possibly, would you want it to hold a nuke reactor together.... maybe not
Too much heat can be as bad as too little heat.
I think what gauthier is trying to say, is that stick welding is as much an art as it is technical procedure. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
Just a couple notes on the Hobart 175 I thought I'd share with you. While the Hobart 175 Handler is a 220V MIG welder, you can run it on a 30 amp breaker and wire from that to your outlet with only 10/2 wire. I got this directly from Hobart and wanted to pass it on to you as most 220V welders require a 50 amp breaker and a heavier gauge wire to the outlet. While I don't think this is anything upon which to base a purchase decision, I thought it was something you might like to know.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Gary,......that business of running on a 30 AMP circuit as opposed to a 50 AMP is true when you go to wire feed welders. When I first got my Miller wire feed machine we were sharing a single outlet with the stick welder. One day I was in a hurry do do some wire welding and the stick machine was busy, plugged into the "welder" outlet. I took the Miller welder primary lead across the shop and plugged into a 20AMP outlet we had for the hacksaw, and welded for an hour or more on that 20 AMP breaker with no trip. Of course I wasn't really at the top end of the heat range, but still...... [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Regarding material thicknesses.......when you are welding two pieces of material, you have to be able to put enough heat into the area to "FUSE" the metal. No matter how many passes you make, if the material is taking the heat away too fast, you'll never get good penetration and a good joint. Remember that the FIRST PASS is the one that hooks to the parent material, if you don't have enough heat for that pass, you're screwed anyway. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I've run into this with stick welders; where the mtal was SO THICK that I couldn't get enough heat built up to really burn my weld in there like it needed to be. A large cross-section will transport so much heat away from your weld that you just cannot get the puddle to really be good and hot like it needs to be. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Multiple passes are only effective if you can "re-puddle" to a certain extent. Running beads on top of beads that aren't burned in sufficiently may not hold very well. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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