Gary, The suspense and worry over the uncertainty of such a monumental financial situation was most agonizing, I'm sure. Glad you were able to bear up under the strain. For that price I would think you'd save enough to buy the upgrade if you are going to be a serious user. If just dabbling then you did good to get in so cheap. I don't do good on eBay. I always have fanatical idiots bidding up what I want till it sells for more than you could get it at the store.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Pat
That's why I went with the 'Buy it Now' option and committed to the extra half a buck early. I didn't think I'd hold up under the strain. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
At this point I'm just putzing around with some plans. Mostly what I've done is essentially 'copy' a set of plans I like then make the changes I'd want to see if I can come up with something with which I think I'd be happy. When I have the money in hand to build what I want, THEN I'll probably want to go with something a little more professional to get a little better look at things.
In the final analysis I'm pretty sure that whatever I do will end up going through a professional before I start ordering materials, anyhow. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
3.0 is just fine.
I strongly suggest NOT upgrading to 5.0 -- you will not be happy.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
Indiana Gary: Indy, I have been involved with design off and on for decades in various disciplines or flavors of science/engineering and have never found anything more daunting or intimidating to most folks that a blank piece of paper. Ever notice how even in a group effort someone has to "prime the pump" so to speak by putting up something however pitiful on the board that the others can improve and modify. It just about doesn't matter what goes up first as it will rapidly evolve to a generally acceptable solution. I find that it works solo as well. Do something, even if it is wrong, and then fix it.
The key is to not sit looking at a blank piece of paper locked in analysis paralysis afraid to start drawing before you know the IDEAL solution. You can get a square root accurate to two decimal places by guesing at the answer and refineing it by successive approximation, about three iterations. Even a really poor first guess just barely makes a difference. Blank sheet designs are the same way.
//PROF MODE OFF//
Sorry.... None of this will be on the quiz!
If you intend to get "SERIOUS" later and involve a professional plan service (Not neccessarily a lisc architect but a plan drawing professional) then it might pay to try to ID one fairly soon, determine his/her data input compatibility, and try to get an application that is data compatible. It might cost you more for your S/W but be cheaper in the long run by taking less time for the pro to input your stuff.
/plan drawers (non-architect type) and in the past they had customers give them a copy of the program the customer used in an attempt to get data compatibility but this is a hassle for them as they are expert with their own tools and it wastes a lot of time and limits them to use a "customer tool."
No matter what tools get employed, there is no substitute for "smart guys around a table." All the tools in the world won't make someone a craftsman. Industry FINALLY figured out that the best computer tools in the world still wouldn't design something without a skilled operator. I survived the era where computer based tools were going to essenltially write programs without human intervention. Didn't haqppen.
I'll bet you have a lot of fun, whichever tool(s) you use.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
<font color="blue"> there is no substitute for "smart guys around a table." All the tools in the world won't make someone a craftsman </font color>
Pat,
I couldn't agree with you more. Believe me when I tell you that I never even for an instant thought that a $9 investment in software was ever going to preclude using a professional designer or architect. My one and only goal in this was to get something down on paper (or phospher, as it were) so that I could make some changes and modifications and get some idea as to what I think I want and why.
Honestly, my 'finished product' will only be the first step beyond the blank page (or screen) for the next guy. In truth my approach to the pro will probably be something along the lines of "Here's what I think I want. Tell me why I won't or why it can't be done." Then, once we pass that stage, I'll shift to "OK, now tell me how you think it can be better and why." I think something like this has to be a collaborative effort for it to be successful.
Since I have a basic idea of what I want (including some 'quirky' things just for me (e.g. larger doorways, base cabinets on 6" risers, two clothes dryers, etc.) it just made a lot of sense to me to go ahead and at least get some basics done.
Another "quirky thing", two dishwashers=less cabinet space required. Friend did this in her new house. Turned out to be a smarter move than I could have imagined. Left for clean, right for dirty.
Gary, Your rationale has a certain familiar ring to it... I ended up with more tools and eventually droped the plans pros from the sceanario. I have confidence in the teaming arrangement I have with my builder and think that together we can do the right thing without a "standard plan set" but I realize this aproach isn't for everyone. There are REAL plans for part of the project. The engineered steel truss section (57x48 ft with 12 ft walls and 12:12 pitch gable roof over 48x36 of it and 2:12 shed roof over 21x36 of it)) came with detailed drawings from the truss company, Miracle Steel.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
<font color="blue"> two dishwashers </font color>
Thanks for the thought. That one's already on the list. One company actually makes a two drawer system for that very purpose.
Two dryers, two diswashers, OK, whatever blows your kilts up. I want to know about the 6 inch spacers under the base cabinets. Do you raise the wall cabinets to match? If not you only have about 12 inches from counter top to bottom of wall cabs.
Is the 6 inch spacer a cost cutting idea vs making the base cabinets taller (more enclosed volume) or do you have something special in mind for the under cabinet space? (Raise chinchillas at home for fun and profit?)
What floor to counter top dimension do you favor? (HOW TALL ARE YOU???) I'm 6 ft 2 in barefoot and find standard countertops, workbenches, tables, etc marginal in height. A bit more would be better but I can't get too carried away as my wife is 5 ft 7 in. Still she would do OK with a couple inches higher than standard.
Patrick
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Patrick,
First, as to two dishwashers, it's just practical. Unless you have glass doored cabinets and want to show off your stacks of dishes in them, there's no point in taking them from the dishwasher to the cabinet and then to the table. The idea of putting them in the cabinet made sense when you washed them in the sink. We no longer do that.
Two clothes dryers are just as practical. I don't want to sound like Andy Rooney here, but...Did you ever notice that it takes twice as long to dry a load of laundry than it does to wash one? Once you put the first load in the dryer, you really can't start another one in the washer because it'll be done before the first one is dry... [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
As to kitchen cabinetry, my plan right now (subject to change at the slightest whim, of course) is to have 9' ceilings, 42" wall cabinets and raise mount them appropriately above the counter top height. I have no plans for the 6" space under the base cabinets. Your idea of 42" base cabinets is something I'll certainly look into.
As to why I want the counter higher, it's really quite simple. You said that you were something over 6' and note that the counter height is low for you and that even your 5'-7" wife could use the counters a little higher. Since the 36" counter height became the standard we've gotten taller as a nation.
I'm a little over 6'-8" tall. My son is 6'-5" and my daughter is 6'-0", which is only 4" taller than her Mom. I'm sure you can see where adding half a foot in counter height makes sense now. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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