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[TimSullivan]

Hey Kevin,

Experience is the best teacher and you and I have learned that the hard way. Our last project went very well and it was a joy most of the time. There will always be problems that need to be solved but good people find good solutions.

Good luck on your next project, I just wish I could send you my subs except for the plumber. He put a few bumps in the road but everything worked out. You see I too am a perfectionist and just down right stubborn. He learned that you follow the plan and code or you rip it out and do it right.

Tim

[fivestring]

Paul, be sure to take a vacation when all is done. You'll need it!!! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Paul, You certainly have my sympathy. Reading your tale of woe frankly scares me. I think I'm doing mostly OK so far but I can see where it might all go in a handbasket in a hurry. Ordinarily I look for almost any solution other than lawyers and court but sometimes it is the right thing to do.

If you have a quality problem, the last thing I would have done is demand more speed! Sometimes something just takes as long as it takes, not what might have been estimated or expected overoptimistically. Some builders (clients as well) just don't understand CPM (Critical Path Management) and think more folks added to a job will always make it finish faster and that is absolutely wrong in some instances. I don't care how many women you but on the job, a baby takes about 9 months!

Pressing for more work to get done, thinking you'll get it corrected later is a BAD plan. If it isn't too late, dig in your heels and refuse to pay for anything that isn't to code or acepted industry quality standards or the installation instructions of the mfg (doors, windows, sinks etc.)

It is hard, I know. How does a project get so terrifically fouled up? Usually the answer is, a little bit each day! How does a site get to look like a landfill? A little each day. If a fair percentage of what they do is wrong, doing more and doing it faster is not likely to yield better results.

Paul, you are being ripped off as surely as if the guy had a gun and demanded your wallet. If you accept substandard work with no compensation in price you are helping him fleece you. By demanding more work in less time you are demanding that he fleece you faster. You shouldn't let your desire for completion (short term satisfaction) blind you to the long term problems and costs you are accepting.

You will have to live with this abortion for a long time or suffer the ecconomic consequences of trying to sell something so obviously flawed. Why demand that the builder hurry up and do more wrong work? I suggest you put out some effort in the legal arena. The contractor isn't ging to suddenly sprout wings and sport a halo. He isn't going to do ANYTHING but take your money as fast as he can and split, leaving you with a long term headache. You need to find out rather quickly what if any legal teeth you can sink into his backside. You need to convince him through legal means that it is in his best interest to satisfy your reasonable demands. He is motivated by greed and his own selfish self interest. Do not expect him to do anything for you because it is moral, just, or "the right thing."

You need to find a legal means of making his self interest serve you. Given the choice of your having the defects corrected in a workmanlike manner by a third party and his being sued to make the payment or correcting them himself to the satisfaction of a court appointed inspector, he might choose to "get it right."

I'm sorry, Paul, I just don't see a desireable ending to your tale of woe that doesn't include gong to court.

Pat

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue">…If you have a quality problem, the last thing I would have done is demand more speed!...</font color>

Hi Patrick,

I believe, it was a legal maneuver by Paul’s attorney to “push” for completion of the original contract date (physically impossible, the way things were going)… and in essence the “contractor was boxed into a legal corner” by not fulfilling the terms of the contract… thereby setting the next stage for Paul to obtain some legal remedies… not available at the time… [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

John, If that is the case and it is to bring legal pressure to bear on the contractor then that is a good thing and of course my objection is innappropriate. This contractor needs to be held accountable for his shoddy work and failure to build to spec/cpode/mfg installation instructions.

The typical scenario of the sleazoid contractor is the contractor folds his tent (bankruptcy) and starts again next week in his partner's name or girl friends name or...

My mom's prevous house had its basement dug on the wrong lot. Contractor filleldl it and tried again. Basement was so shoddy (as per my bro-in-law who knows block laying that they made him knock some down and go again. He was using seconds for his block. His waterproofing was Thompson's lightly rolled on. Mom refused to pay, essentially firing him. He threatened to take her to court. Mom went to the lisc board and found his lisc was expired. She went to the judge and found out the contractor was in litigation with 5 other widows! She said "so sue me" and we will tell our stories and see what the judge thinks. He went away and didn't bother her again. She got an honest contractor to finish the job for a good price in a reasonable time, with GOOD quality.

If only Paul's troubles could be "fixed" so easily.

Pat

[TimSullivan]

Hi Pat,

You are right on the money. The problem is now that Paul’s home is so close to being done that the hope is that it will get done.

Paul was far more patient than I would have been. Then I have learned the hard way that some times contractors take advantage of the patient client. The builder has little to gain because he knows that Paul and his wife are unhappy. Nothing he does now will change that so why change how he has treated this project. The time to effect change was months ago. [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

The posts about the cement trucks getting stuck because there was no driveway access was my first red flag. In our climate in NY it is just foolish not to prepare for the big heavy trucks. They just sink in the mud. Any builder that ignores that is showing his ignorance or arrogance. I know the mason on my last project visited the site to check the access for trucks. I guess he did not want any surprises. Even the well drillers waited until the driveway was in place before sending their rig. You don’t make money when your truck is buried in the mud.

We all feel for Paul and his family and wish we could change the past. This thread should be required reading for all that are thinking about contracting a new home.

[s1120]

<font color="red"> This thread should be required reading for all that are thinking about contracting a new home.
</font color>

You got that right. I guess if I can help one person go through the same thing, I will feel a little better. OK, so it will not help me much, but I do hope someone learns something from all this. You always hear about the "other people" that have these problems. I never thought we would be them. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[retired_young]

So, all things remaining equal, what is the (hopeful) move in date? And I may have missed this from earlier in the thread, but where are you living in the mean time?

If you're renting that cost shoud be added to the list of "damages" on your lawsuit. My thoughts and prayers go out to you, Paul. I'm sure this will end swiftly and hopefully without any more pain.

R-Y

[bigbukhntr]

yeah Paul, I think what helped me alot was being in business for myself, I have learned that people will try and take advantage of you if you are too nice!...maybe thats why i look at things from a different angle than most, and why my wife keeps asking me why i just dont trust people to do what they say they will!...I have been ripped off by customers not paying bills, employees stealing tools/toilet paper/paper towels...suppliers sending invoices for things I never ordered....it gets ridiculas sometimes....but this guy is a crook and I hope you have lots of money left that you owe him, because he shouldnt see another dime from you!

What sucks about this is that you tried to do the right thing and hire a builder, not cutting any corners and doing it yourself or anything...Man this guys just burns me up, I cant tell how many times I have broke even or even lost a little on jobs just to keep the customer happy....

Well, keep your head up and hopefully things will work out o k , at least now you will have something to do once you move in there...should be a never ending supply of projects which will need your attention! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]