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Thread: The best 10" table saw blade...

  1. #51
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    fivestring, Until I read a lot of good info from various sources such as the link Gary (chilimau) posted, I had intended to use barrels upstream of the blower to collect "the stuff" but now know that if the system is powerful enough to get the fine dust, not just the chips, shavings, and sawdust, that it will pull the lighter stuff right on through the upstream container.

    There are two distinct problems to be solved. 1. collect most of the debris so you don't have to sweep up so much. 2. collect and retain the most carcinogenic material (fine dust) at its source before it gets mixed into the air you are breathing.

    I have one of the ceiling filters. It will be better than not having it but it will not protect you while you are generating fine dust.

    The ceiling filter cleans the air (with good installation and luck) in an exponential decay manner similar to the idea of "half life" in atomic decay. It may eventually clean the air sufficiently but it takes a long time and doesn't do much for you at the time you are creating the dust. The filter is great to run for a while before doing any painting or varnishing. Stand by, here comes one of my favorite demonstrations...

    Put a couple tablespoons of milk in a clear glass and place the glass under the tap running a "medium" stream. Watch the rate of "clearing up" of the mixture after it begins to overflow. Note how long it takes before the mixture is truly clear looking. A fan with a filter (the Delta unit and others) works like that. Even if it removed ALL particles it took in, it would work just like the milk in the glass.

    These filters have their use but protecting you from dust inhalation while you are generating the dust, isn't it!

    With risk of seeming to be a "Chicken Little" proclaiming the sky to be falling, I'm telling you that your present setup before or after installing a ceiling filter fan (or two or five of them) does not collect the most dangerous part of the spectrum of dust particles in a manner that produces a safe environment while the contamination is being generated.

    If there is doubt, check into industrial safety practices, OSHA, etc. Factories are checked for meeting minimum air quallity for protection of the workers whilie we hobby types are typically blissfully ignorant of the "real deal." Typical hobby setups are so much worse than the minimum standards that we often inhale more fine contaminants in minutes than factory woodworkers do all week.

    Of course it is easy to give examples of "Old Joe." Old Joe did such and such for xx years and he never had a problem. My mom is in her late 80's and smokes. She doesn't have lung cancer and is in great health for her age THEREFORE smoking is healthy and contributes to longevity. Whether or not walking across the street without looking in either direction for cars is safe, some one may do it for a while and get away with it. If they are killed they never tell anyone so the myth of safety remains unchallenged. //SOAPBOX MODE OFF//

    I will be building or buying a cyclone type dust collection unit. As the shop is a conditioned space, at least in the hottest and coldest times, I have an additional problem. If the cyclone output is outside I will pump all the conditioned air out of the shop and waste a lot of electricity and $. I will need a large HEPA type filter on the output which will be ducted back into the shop. LIke you, I want the unit itself, which can be quite noisy, outside away from me.

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  2. #52
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    DocHeb, Good stuff! I ordered the books. The Workshop book is bunces cheaper at Amazon.

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  3. #53
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    A friend of mine bought the Jet air filtration system ($200). To me, it appeared to do a decent job of getting air-borne dust (by looking at the filters). He also has a Harbor Freight (Central) 2 hp dust collector. One thing I did notice is that in the light, there was still quite a bit of dust.
    Now I'm convinced that cyclone dust collection is the way to go.
    I had been looking at the sysyems (and there are a bunch out there) and after looking at DocHeb's post, it looks like he works for Oneida! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    That was the brand I was looking to buy. For $800 (plus a barrel and mounting strap), it's a system that will be hard to beat!
    A couple of questions, tho.....
    Can the Oneida cyclone be mounted outside the shop? (even if it's in a closet that I have to build).
    If the cyclone can be mounted outside, do you need a filter?
    Does the filter element have to remain inside?
    Ideally, I'd like the motor and noise (plus the size and bulk) outside my cavernous [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] 12x12 shop... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    But.... if filtered air (clean) is expelled from the system, I'd like that part inside the shop. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    I guess we should start a post on dust collection. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    Gary
    Bluegrass Music ...
    Finger-pickin' good!

  4. #54
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I want the unit itself, which can be quite noisy, outside away from me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Units that use a blower (rather than universal motor like shop vacs) really aren't noisy. I have a 3hp blower that I use in the basement, and the kids watch TV in the room above without increasing the volume. There is a slight high-pitched component to the blower, and I installed a "muffler" sold by Oneida that made the noise disappear.

  5. #55
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    DocHeb, Not knocking the Oneida but the reviews and info I read brought my ranking of it to 3rd place, still quite acceptable. It just might be quieter than some of the others. Anyway, I don't intend to keep it in the room with me. I will "spare" it some space
    in the adjoining 21x48 open-on-one-side-shed and duct the final filtered air back into the shop to conserve conditioned air.

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  6. #56
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    Pat,
    In your opinion and ranking order why did the Oneida rank third and who did you rank above it. I am looking at installing a cyclone unit in my new shop and from all that I have read it looks like the Oneida would be very hard to beat. I am still looking and any advice and comment is welcome. Thanks
    Leo

  7. #57
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    Leo (em14), Read here:

    http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworki...lone/index.cfm

    Link supplied by chillimau.

    I haven't anything to say bad about the Oneida or its nearest commercial competition B U T I think the cyclone plans and or kits offered on the above site can enable you to produce a unit that is certainly the equal of, and depending on your attention to detail, better than the Oneida and its closest competitors. Equal or better pwerformance for significantly less money!

    Blast gates are even simpler ways to save money but not as much. Blast gates just aren't that hard to make. Unfortunately there isn't a big payoff for making them yourself but it could easily be worth it, especially if you need several in your ducting plan.

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  8. #58
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    Pat,
    Thanks ... I have read his site and it is very good ... once again thanks ..
    Leo

  9. #59
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    Re: The best 10\" table saw blade...

    Leo, I am accepting your thanks, standing in for chillimau who enlightened me to its whereabouts. When I read it my DCQ (dust collector quotient) doubled or tripled.

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

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