The best 10" table saw blade...

[Pat]

fivestring, It isn't quite so grand as you might imagine. With 6 doors plus an overhead garage door leading in/out of my shop space and a requirement to keep access paths useable it represents somewhat of a challenge in figuring out an efficient layout. Additionally there are three closets with double (French) doors opening into my shop space as well so the actual door count of doors that need space to open and therefore prevent shop tools and benches from being placed along that section of wall is significant.

I hope that at least one of the closets is exclusively mine and therefore can have a bench or tool on wheels in front of it with no complaints from she who transits the space.

I'm not complaining mind you, just representing the facts. I'm sure that 24x36, even with the "Grand Central Station" attributes, will be pretty nice. I was just pointing out that it isn't as simple as just having a separate 24x36 bld.

Considered as a "network problem" the 6 (non-closet, non-garage) doors represent 15 distinct "transit paths" (door pairs) through my shop space. Luckily, only two of those should be absloutely-mandatory-clear-at-all-times-paths for she who transits the space. Others should be a lower priority for she who transits my space and hopefully may be made less convenient by my activities and locations of benches and tools as I will be the principal user of those paths.

Due to one of the paths being from her garage stall to the door leading into the house, it will have to be kept reasonably clean as well as open to transit.

I am anxious to get to work on this problem in a full scale mockup (the real thing) cause that means I'm finally using the shop. Unfortunately still an unknown time in the future.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

beenthere, Thanks for the great idea! Mounting a tool in what is essentially a drawer could be quite useful. I have seen the "store bought" organizers where each tool is mounted on a common sized base and can be easily placed into a holder on a bench for use. There are some plans out for DIY versions that are interesting. Still, you have to "lug" the machine to and from storage and use locations.

Your drawer concept sounds convenient. Perhaps more that one tool could be drawer (or rack) mounted above a standardized cutout in the table. I'm visualizing multiple tools on a carrier that moves parallel to the work bench until the tool of interest alligns with the "docking port." I confess I was tempted to borrow from Sam Colt and the Wurlitzer "juke box" and suggest mounting the supply of tools in a circular magazine arrangement but a linear analog will fit along a wall better.

I'll hold all of these ideas in reserve as I think the best arrangement, if space allows, is to have most everything set up for use at once. Some tools might be amenable to mounting on wheeled carts of a standard height (and perhaps standard length and width or use spacers). You would then have a couple removable sections in your long bench to accept the tools on carts. You wouldn't have to carry the tool, just roll up and dock the cart in the table. If alligment were critical you could pin the cart to index it and get great repeatability. Accessories unique to the particular tool could be stored in the cart.

I confess the last idea above was already worked out decades ago when I was the quality engineer for a computer hard drive manufacturer. Industrial sized hard drives were a couple feet in diameter then and techs worked on them with their covers removed in a clean room flow booth. I designed a cart and docking port system so that among other things, they didn't have to lift the delicate drives up and set them on the bench then return them to a cart, yet with a lazy susan they could turn and access all sides of the drive assy and its electronics.

Something similar should work with bench mount woodworking tools. Adjust the mounting height of the individual carts to place the tool at the proper height when docked in the port in the bench. The bench becomes in and out feed or support for a number of tools. Still, if able I will try to have as many tools ready for use "as is" as I can.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Gary (AKA chilimau), Thanks for the dust collector system link. One of my previous jobs required the use of an airborn particle spectrum analyzer which had a calibrated vacuum pump that pulled air in through a hose and a forward scattering optical analyzer. It counted the number of particles in the air of varying sizes and printed out a chart (spectrograph) showing how many there were of which sizes. I have had significant experience monitoring airborn particulate contamination as was significant to a class 100 clean room. We had clean room flow booths with large HEPA filters (approx 4x10 feet) mounted across the back of the work benches. We maintained 125 ft/min air flow coming out of the filters across the table. I trained folks to sample the air coming out of the filters to ensure our standards were met. 6 ft down stream of these flow benches was a high bay factory environment as dirty and dusty as any "normal" factory. I learned a lot about aerodynamics and mixing of air streams. It was amazing how dirty air could get up stream by various means.

Also a recent journal article I read was on the topic of fine particle contamination and how the really fine dust enters our lungs and stays, accumulating over your lifetime. If the dust is small enough it is never removed by natural processes and just accumulates, possibly promoting cancer.

All this has given me pause to consider my dust collection system. Being aware that many vacuum cleaners grind up a significant portion of incoming materials and spew them back out through less than efficient bags and filters. I was originally going for a central vac but compared the ease of use, cost, etc vs a good vac with a hepa filter and decided on multiple portable vacs in place of the central system for in-house use.

As regards the shop's dust collection system: I intended to mount the system outside of the shop on the opposite side of the building from the heatpumps. I know it will be a source of fine dust but that would put the fine dust outside. I do have reservations with that arrangement as it would suck a lot of conditioned air out of the shop suring either heating or cooling seasons (shop is a conditioned space.)

To counter the waste of conditioned air I thought I could build a "closet" to contain the dust collection equipment and place large filter banks in the "filter walls" of the closet. These filter walls would be composed of a series of layers of progressively finer filters, ending with HEPA or equivalent.

I need to do some research for filter components to find an economical solution with good performance. Hopefully I'll find some washable-reusable filter material that does a pretty good job to place ahead of the HEPA. Proper HEPA filters stop the fine particles but to be cost effective should have good prefilters to prevent their premature pluging up. To counter the restriction to flow caused by the filters, you just increase filter area. The more area the greater time between cleanings.

I have requested the HVAC guys to install a really large filter assy in the shop's return air grill to increase the time between filter washings.

In anticipaton of my needs I already bought a delta shop air filter (ceiling mount with remote control.) It was on sale with a significant discount at a Lowe's, apparently with no demand for it.

I may "fir down" on the ceiling where the return air grill goes to allow for more filter thickness. I will have to do some spec checks to see how may sq ft of HEPA filter it would take to reduce the air flow restriction to an acceptable value. With a HEPA filter in the shops return air flow, running the system, even on fan only, will filter out the fine particles fairly quickly. If I get inspired, I could home brew an electrostatic precipitator.

Gary, thanks again for the link.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[fivestring]

Pat, Gary, Egon and others.....
At the woodworking show, I spent too much money! [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

The Forrest WWII was $89. cha-ching
The Freud LM72 Rip blade was $45. cha-ching

One vendor had 10' sections of 2 1/2" dust collection hose for $9. cha-ching

Both arms were full when I left! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

fivestring, I have been reading up on dust collection. It is Chilimau's fault, he posted a link to a dust collection site and I sort of went from there... Anyway, I am curious what devices you will use 2 1/2 inch dust collection hose for and in what lengths?

Chip collection and sawdust collection are important especially for general cleanliness and order but as regards health the really fine dust is much more important and from my recent reading requires a lot larger ducts and higher flow rates than most "old time" designs recommend.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[fivestring]

Hodgepodge collection. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Since I only use one tool at a time, I set up the dust collection on that machine. I use a "cyclone-type" lid on a 5-gallon bucket (Harbor Freight) then on to the shop-vac.
My next purchase for dust collection will be an air filtration system (like Jet) to mount on the ceiling. Right now, I'm using a 20" box fan with a 20x20 filter on the back side. It works OK for now.
When I expand, add on or re-build a new shop, I want a built-in system with a cyclone that will sit outside the shop or in it's own little enclosed area.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
I bought a 10 pack of the N95 dust masks with the exhale valve. The regular N95 masks cause my glasses to fog up.
If those don't work, it's on to a respirator. The type we use at work is real expensive ($240) but man do they work! [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[fivestring]

Egon, how big is your shop?

In my little 12x12 world, I keep the planer and mitre saw under my workbench until they are needed.
The drill press is on it's own base.
The 4" belt sander is on it's own base.
The 9" Ryobi bandsaw is on it's own base.
The table saw stays near the middle at the door (infeed side).
Pretty soon, I hope to have the planer and miter saws on their own bases. The weather is getting warm enough to work in the shop now.
I'll send you some pictures of my setup as soon as I get my digital camera back from my wife. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

BTW.... how does the benchtop jointer work for you?
I was looking at a 6" benchtop model since I don't have any floor space left.

[egon]

Gary

Good show.

Next time take a wheelbarrow and helper to haul the catch home.

Egon

[DocHeb]

Sorry for the delay in reply - was a long weekend at work.

I am 6'3", so I mounted my mitre saw where it felt comfortable - it ends up being 54" above the ground. I am able to use my Delta DJ15 6" jointer on most of my work without having to move it.

My blast gates were purchased from Jet Tools, and cost ~$8. No special materials are needed, and they could be fabricated from wood and acrylic. Just make sure there is a way for the gate to push chips out of the gate channels, otherwise it will bind-up. I have seen plans for gates that use low-voltage magnetic reed switches to turn the blower on whenever a gate is opened. That idea is festering in my mind and will eventually surface, but for the last 10 years I've used the circuit breaker in the shop to turn the blower on. I used a cyclone from Oneida Air Systems. I have a cyclone and blower that I cobbled together 10 years ago, but their new systems with the two HEPA filters externally are really sweet. An incredible improvement from any system that uses bags. I can be working on two tools and leave both gates open with adequate air flow. My latest workstation is a 24" by 48" sanding table that is vented by 2 - 6" gates. I can sand and there is NO dust flying around. There is no problem with my system pulling chips up 9 feet to the ceiling ductwork. I collect sawdust into a 55 gallon drum, so emptying is an infrequent event. Although Oneida sells specialized ductwork, all my ducts are made of HVAC 4, 5, 6, 7, & 8" sheet metal. It is easy to work with and modify. The majority of my ductwork is 6" - there are the most fittings in that size.

The problem with using shop vacs is the lack of sufficient air volume and air speed. There needs to be suffient flow to keep chips in suspension (not settle out), and allow capturing of moving dust at the source. Duct sizing is critical so that it matches the flow at any given point so that you don't have plugged ducts. Using my system for 10 years, I've never had a duct get clogged. A book that I found invaluable is Woodshop Dust Control by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. It gives a lot of background, and explains why shopvacs may work adequately when attached to a single tool, but will not work well with a installed duct system. Also, I find shopvac noise intolerable, and a high volume blower cyclone will be a distant low-pitched rumble rather than an ear-splitting whine. My wife doesn't even complain if I work for a couple hours and just leave the cyclone blower on - it pulls air from the basement shop and runs it through the filters and clears the air.

In regards to shop layout, I highly recommend The Workshop Book by Scott Landis. It describes and illustrates multiple types of shops and theories of layouts that help with work flow and efficiency. It even has a chapter on the "Garage Shop" that gives suggestions for making a shop that has to revert daily into car storage (what a waste of space - storing a car inside!). I have read this book cover-to-cover several times. One thing I got from that book is a storage suggestion. The long 28 foot wall of my shop is my long piece storage area, and in the 2x4 stud walls I drilled 7/8" holes 3 degrees above horizontal. I use 1/2" x 18" black pipe in the holes to serve as shelves, and I store all my long material there. If I need to cut it to length, I just drop it down to my miter saw. It is centered on the long wall, so I can cut either end of a 14' piece of wood. I attached another picture of my miter saw, the lumber storage, and the rollers I made to support wood for the cutoff saw.

[DocHeb]

I put it up where it felt comfortable - ~54". This allows me to store shorts under it, and my jointer slides under it when not in use. I made some outfeed rollers to support the material, and I attached a picture of one.