manufactured homes

[Pat]

Bird, I'm curious regarding your "Complete concrete slab" comment. I would strongly recommend a good steel reinforced concrete footing/foundation and a similar stemwall (cast or grouted block) but don't see the justification for the extra expense of a complete slab under a raised floor.

It would not be a bad thing. In fact it would offer some benefits like not crawling in dirt to do things under the floor and simplified pest control, no mud under house in any wet period. But as far as structural integrity goes I don't see it as cost effective. Nice to have but not required. That's my take. I'd be pleased to hear your reasoning.

Pat

[Bird]

Pat, you answered your own question. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Of course I agree it's not necessary for the structural integrity if you use footings as you described. However, I've found that the vast majority of manufactured homes, at least in this part of the country, are simply set up with a concrete pad on top of the ground under each pier of concrete blocks and hardwood wedges. But as you mentioned in your second paragraph, I know that sooner or later, I'd want to get under there for something and I'd much rather roll around on a good creeper than crawl around in the dirt.

The old farmer/rancher next door neighbor that I got most of my hay baling experience with has now sold the farm and bought 2 acres at the edge of town and after talking to builders, considering prefab homes, etc., they've already had the slab poured and a manufactured home put on it this past month, and instead of the common vinyl skirting, it'll be bricked. He and I both have been under enough mobile homes (ours and others') that we know what we'd do in the future. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Chillimau]

Try to find a individual selling, but most are in over their head with depreciation and can't afford to sell at market value. Look at the Repo's you MIGHT find a deal there. DON'T buy a new one. I almost bought a 2yr old Solitaire 16x80 for about 11,000 less than what it sold for new only two years ago. This home truely looked brand new. We have all heard that before, but for once it was true. Probably should have bought it, but other things just aren't in place at the moment. Don't plan on this type of home appreciating in value. Look at it from a rent stand point. Can you save more money than you are losing in depreciation during the time you are living in it. At $500 or more a month for rent, you can still come out on a mobile home depending on how long you live it AND get to live on your land. 6-12 months ago we found several for $12,000 to $15,000 that looked pretty nice. Market has gotten greedy the last few months in this area and I am just about to go other avenues.

Gary

[Pat]

Bird, I was wondering if yo could offer some of your insight into why so many folks buy manufactured homes rather than rollaways when a rollaway makes more economic sense, sometimes by a wide margin. I know ther will be cases where the economics will be skewed by the intended length of occupancy, distance to a rollaway builder, or whatever but where there is good availability of rollaways they should be virtually allways a better deal.

One of my framers has a friend who just bought a manufactured home. The framer asked him why in light of the number of qualilty rollaway builders in the area. I was told the response was because the seller financed it and paid for the land and he only had to make one monthly payment. My framer's comment? You have sufficient credit to go to the bank and do the same thing for yourself at better rates and get a better house that will appreciate. Framer says the guy just said OH WELL IT IS TOO LATE NOW.

So I guess I was looking for intelligent reasons, well thought out reasons, reasons that withstand scrutiny. I'm not on a crusade to put manufactured home builders out of business, I shopped manufactured homes with/for my mom and we nearly got one befor a friend (real estate professional) clued me in. I consider it a PUBLIC SERVICE to make potential home buyers aware of options that might be a better deal for them.

The idea of buying a house that is worth considerably less after I move in than before I bought it and depreciates instead of appreciates doesn't sound like the real estate experience that I want to have. There may be exceptional cases that defy the gist of my comments but a few exceptions don't nullify the general trend.

Pat

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
wondering if yo could offer some of your insight into why so many folks buy manufactured homes rather than rollaways

[/ QUOTE ]

No, Pat, I really can't; no personal experience with the rollaways. The friends/neighbors I mentioned said they did look into that (I didn't get details), but said they could get a lot more house for less money by going with the manufactured house. Of course, they were talking about original cost without considering the appreciation/depreciation factor. So any "insight" I provided would be nothing but pure speculation.

When we bought our new manufactured home for the farm, I figure I paid a premium price because it was one of the best built brands and we ordered it with every option they had (except a fireplace which we didn't want), plus a number of our own customization features. We lived in it for 5 years and sold the farm for approximately the same amount we had paid (the home 5 years and the land 8 years). So if you don't count my labor, I just about broke even, and of course, had it been a site built house (as we built for my brother) it would have appreciated in value.

Now the little single wide we're currently living in is a 1997 model, vinyl siding, double windows, new composition shingle roof in May, in very good condition (after I had it re-levelled), but a cheap brand (Fleetwood) and we bought it for just about half what the original owner paid for it new. So the original owner took a considerable depreciation or loss, and I don't expect to make any profit on it, but don't think I can lose too much either.

Of course there's another other drawback to manufactured housing if you finance it, and that is the fact that many banks will not finance them at all, and those that do charge a much higher interest rate than they would on a site built house.

I think the two major reasons, in most cases, for going with manufactured houses is lower original cost and the fact that it can be ready to move into much more quickly than other types of housing.

[Pat]

Bird, You did give a good reason why folks go for manufactured vs rollaway. Time. Todays market is one of INSTANT GRATIFICATION. Folks will often select the quick over the quality, fast over fundamentally sound. Related to that is the inability to visualize. If they can't see the finished product or something real close they don't buy. Manufactured home sales lots have oodles of units to show. I shoulda thought of that without your input Oh well.

Maybe the dealer financing is a little looser than bank, too.

It so happens that we have a small town (Stratford) about 14 miles from me with several 5-6 or more rollaway builders. The one we dealt with (Hinkle Homes) has anywhere from about 10 to 15 homes in various phases of construction most of the time. All are open to be visited. They use first quallity materials and have nothing to hide. No cheap traileresque shortcuts or flimsy fixtures.

I got to know the owners (Dewayne and Joyce) and their son and his family pretty well and we visit back and forth and have been out to eat with them a few times. Dewayne has been courted several times by Lowe's but continues to buy his lumber direct from Weyerhauser. He gets prime material. I couldn't find lumber as good as he uses if I spent a whole day going from Lowe's to Home Depot culling through huge piles. The BIG stores don't have the best quality.

Several of their homes have been shipped to Texas, Arkansas, and Kansas so they must be doing something right.

I am surprised by your $ comment. We paid less than a similar sized and appointed manufactured home for mom's custom designed rollaway. Maybe the cost vs feature and guality ratio available in our area is an anomoly due to the competition or something. Anyway, around here the rollaway is a better house for no more and maybe less $. Of course that does not stop the manufactured home sales. There are plenty of sales lots bulging with different models and lots of traffic parading through them.

About three years ago we paid $63K for 1820 sq ft 3 bedroom 3 bath with lots of custom features. There are two master suites with WIC and Jacuzzi tubs. Great room/open plan with vaulted ceiling with decorative hardwood beams, two kitchen islands, upgraded high SEER Lennox heat pump. Trucking and setup was about 4K (only 10 miles).

Only real complaint was long wait in master baths for hot water due to length of run from util room. After I installed a very small water heater (2 1/2 gal) under the house between the master suites', hot water is 6 seconds away. There were no other problems. Well, one little irritation that I could easily fix if I get far enough along my "to do" list to get down that low in priority... The ceiling insulation is blown in F/G and works well BUT if you open either of the attic access ports some of it will fall down on the carpet. A small retaining wall could be placed around the hole to prevent that. Then insulation batting or rigid foam could be placed on the actual little door and voila no more problem. We have only accessed the attic twice in three years and that was for the sat dish install and mod. House has TV outlets everywhere reasonable but the central connection/distribution is in the attic.

One minor, fixable, oversight was having HVAC registers in the master suite WIC but not the guest room WIC which is so large I use half of it for my computer room. Still I just leave the door open and it is god enough.

Dissclaimer: I do not represent the Rollaway home industry or any part thereof nor have I ever had a negative interaction with the manufactured home folks who were always nice when visited.

My findings were based on personal observations of mine and a friend with years of professional real estate experience in central Oklalhoma, not a statistically significant nationwide sampling. Your mileage may vary. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Pat

[Chillimau]

For us a roll-away is not what we want for a final home and too expensive as a temporary home. Maybe you could sell the roll away after you are done with it? I have no idea what the used market in roll-aways is like. I would guess something similiar the other used or preowned stick framed homes that are moved, not very good. Any thoughts on a used roll-away? Lot more expense in the foundation and moving costs. That alone would get close to paying for a 1/3rd of the manufactured home. I'm not quite comparing apples here, a new roll away vs used manufactured, but still the goal is to live in something temporary for 4-5 yrs at the least cost. Point me in the right direction.

The roll-away is a nice home and if there was no option for a custom home that would definitely be the choice for us.

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
the goal is to live in something temporary for 4-5 yrs at the least cost

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I agree with Pat when you're talking long term home and investment. But for what you're asking, then I do believe (my opinion based on my experience) that your best bet is a used (not new) mobile home.

The mobile homes (or manufactured homes) are the easiest and quickest to move; both when you buy it and when you get rid of it. New ones will usually (not always, but almost) depreciate. Like I said, I bought this one for about half what it sold for new. And down in the country my brother-in-law and his wife bought a 3-bedroom, two bath, double-wide repo from a bank for no more than a third of the new price, so even having it moved 75 miles saved them a considerable amount of money, and after 10 years they sold it, along with the 10 acres it was on for more than they had invested (not as much as they'd have made with a site built house, but still some profit).

[Pat]

Gary, Once again, you are a special case. Low cost temp housing is a whole different game. Absolutely NOT the best applicatioin of a rollaway. A rollaway is a stick built - exactly - equivalent to a site built stick house. Our builder offered it to us either way. Rollaways do get moved occasionally. Check with Hinkle Homes in Stratford, Oklahoma for the phone number of Bob Pullen (no pun intended). Mr. Pullen has pulled a lot of rollaways over the years. I personally know of one used one he moved since it was on my property till about 3 years before I bought it.

Manufactured wins the "ease of repetitive move" honors BUT be careful as the cheapies have a habit of falling apart on subsequent moves and abused quality units will sustain expensive damage from rough or improper handling.

Depending on how temporary, temporary is and how low on the quality scale you are willing to accept, you could do OK as regards the cost of ownership. Of course the lower on the scale you buy the less depreciation you'll suffer. In my estimation, an older (more depreciated) quality built unit would be a better risk than a newer unit of the same price.

My reasoning is this: the older but higher quality unit has suffered most of its depreciation already and the residual value should be pretty stable. A newer unit at the same price point will have a lot more depreciation coming. The second consideration is moving damage. The newer unit at the same price point may be flimsier than the well built unit that has sat in one location. You'd have to verify this for a specific instance but I think it is likely.

Prior to my mom's decision to take me up on the offer to have a house on our property here, my wife and I were planning to lease a used manufactured home from a nearby used home dealer. I negotiated a fixed fee to haul it in set it up and then to remove it when we were through with it. Our lease was negotiated for a 6 month minimum period and then month to month thereafter with no increase in fee for the first (I think I recall this correctly) 18 months.

I would at least shop a bit and compare what I could do like this versus other options. This would give you a data point to compare against. Why buy and sell if it isn't a better deal than leasing? Of course it might be a better deal but you won't know till you shop for a used lease deal. There is way less risk in a lease since there is no resale consideration but you need to have a good idea on how long temporary is in years because the lease deal will definitely loose out if temporary is 10-15 years.

Pat

[midlifecrisis]

spider, this won't help you much, but i attached a pic of our nearly finished home. the house itself (28' X 60') was hauled here on 2 i-beams and dolleys IN ONE PIECE!!!!! it is very high quality and first rate all the way. they worked 100% from my floor plans and ideas. the garage with entryway and foyer was built on-site as well as the solarium. all the pieces of the puzzle fit together perfect, when it came time to construct. we engineered the wiring and plumbing, as well as requesting a few custom touches, like rounded sheetrock corners, handicap shower and toilet, totally custom kitchen, laundry shute in 2 batrooms, fireplace, arched hallway opening, full 48" wide hallway, corian countertops, oak throughout the house (real oak), 36" raised panel doors on all the rooms and closets, R-21 walls and R-38 ceiling, custom faucets throughout, and the list goes on and on. the point being that it is entirely possible to have a factory built home that people don't believe it's factory built when they tour. there is nothing but high quality throughout and the house INCREASED in value as soon as it was set on the basement. if i had it to do all over again, i would spend even less time deciding to go factory-built. i would do it in a heartbeat.
just my 2¢