Toyota Prius, Fact or Fiction

[rockinmywaypa]

don't want to swing this off topic but in regards to where does the h2 come from? Anybody that gets farm show magazine may recall a couple issues ago about a guy in Alberta that designed a hydrogen generator that produces on an as needed basis. currently being tested on diesel highway tractors. I think this is maybe the ultimate answer as every household could have a diesel hydro generator running 24 hrs on water, your vehicles and tractors could operate on water. Could you get anything cleaner or more efficient than that?

I agree with gatorboy and slamfire. Where is the progress? The CRX gets 10 plus more miles to the gallon and only on gas. There are several cars that perform in the 40 plus mph range. I don't get why this car is so popular and with a much higher price tag and potentially way more problems than a regular gas car that gets the same mileage? When I was in high school we had a Toyota diesel pickup my grandpa had traded for a horse. That thing would easily do 40 plus on the highway. That was over 20 years ago. My brother used to have a Chevy Chevette when he was in college that was a diesel and he'd get 50 plus with it on the highway.

The new generation diesels have better emissions than a 4 cylinder gas motor. My new Ford pickup diesel smells like french frys. You can start it indoors and never even get a diesel smell.

[livincountry]

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks MPG has been stalled over the last 20 years. I have a 2000 Saturn that gets 30 mpg typically looking for a new car today and that is on the high end! I think the Prius is a good idea but I'll need a lot of convincing to take the plunge. Resale is a question in my mind.

[avorancher]

First of all... I don't work or have any associations with Toyota. I'm just a happy Prius owner who started looking for a new car and wasn't considering the Prius until I drove it. I actually didn't like its looks, but my wife loved it and I was impressed with everything else about it.

I've owned both a diesel VW and one of the first Honda sedan's in the country (2 cycle twin-cylinder with 10" wheels). Both got great gas mileage on trips. But I think everyone is missing the point if you are only considering the gas mileage. It is also a great little car and fun to drive, comfortable, super quiet, roomy, climate countrol, peppy, touch screen controls, super low emissions, etc., etc.

Also, the Prius get better gas mileage in traffic than on the road which is where everyone is comparing mileage figures. I happen to spend a lot of time in Los Angeles traffic, so it was important that I have a good stereo and the 50+ traffic mileage is a bonus. Maybe they should rate cars at GPH (gallons per hour) for the LA area.

Actually, if you consider the cost of gas (even at high prices), you need to drive a lot of miles to justify paying just a couple thousand dollars more to get extra mpg.

It is not a car for everyone... in fact I have several other vehicles for other reasons. My pickup get less gas mileage, my tractor has a diesel, my other car is....etc. Each serves a purpose for me.

When something better (for me) comes out, I'd be the first to take a look. Fuel cell looks promising, but just isn't here yet. All electric never made it to a point where I felt I could use it.

But I wouldn't take anyone's word for it. Just take one out for a test drive if you can find one. It may not be your cup of tea.

I leased the Prius because I was concerned about the technology and resale, but the longer I own it, the less concerned I am about either. Right now, I wish my 3-year lease was up so I could buy it out and sell it to someone who doesn't want to wait for one (at a profit). I would then probably order the newer version that came out this year.

[Slamfire]

I lived in LA county for 33 years and worked for the LADWP for 30 of those. If you like the car, I'm happy for you. I wouldn't worry about resale value of any car you can't buy for MSRP prices. I had a lot of fun in that MG, but finished out my career with a Ford Ranger pickup. Suited my altered lifestyle better. I just don't think the added cost could be recouped viz a viz some other vehicles currently legal under CARB restrictions.

[GaryM]

Pat,

I ordered my '04 Prius today! Red with the "AM" options package. Yeah, had to pay list price, just like my 240Z back in 1970.

Delivery should be February-March timeframe. If another unit comes in with the AM package and the person decides not to take it they'll give me a call.

Drove it about 20 miles on the demo drive, some hiway some traffic. Lot's of pickup. I'll need to learn to watch the road and not the energy management display!

[Pat]

CONGRATULATIONS Gary, Glad you didn't let your emotions get in the way any longer. The later you get in queue the later you get served and the wait seems to go up in a non-linear fashion. It looks like an additional week prior to getting in line can mean more like a month waiting to get served (approx).

Sorry, I don't have the options codes memorized and misplaced the Prius literature so I don't know what the AM is. We are getting a Package #9 (factory package) and I don't know what we'll get as port/dealer options, if anything.

Everytime the topic comes up in conversation or just in my mind, I can't help recalling the scene in "Fargo" where the car salesman is trying to badger an old couple into getting the "SEALER". There isn't much of anything non-electronic that the port or dealer could add to the car that I couldn't get better for less somewhere else and electronic items too, maybe.

Red, huh? A ticket magnet? Remember "stealth mode" does not refer to your RADAR or LASER crossection. Well, it is good that OTHERS drive red cars as it helps attract unwanted attention away from me as I... S-T-R-E-A-K by.

There is some good info (and some near useless chatter) available at http://www.priusonline.com/ There is both a Technical and General seection. I have learned a lot there from owners and well informed buyers who like us are just waiting.

There are some "Classic" Prius owners (pre-04) who post and lend a historical perspective. Lots of real world experience on various topics such as short life of OEM tires and lots of other stuff. You may have to engage your narrow band BS filters for some of the posts to drop out a lot of misguided green tree hugging pseudo-religious enthusiasm but all in all it is worth a scan.

Again, congratulations, I hope you have a short wait and a long satisfaction.

Pat

[GaryM]

Pat,

I'll check out the link you provided. And my last two vehicles have been red, so this makes number three. No tickets or problems with any of them, so maybe red's my lucky color.

Package AM is number 7 It lacks the navigation system and I think the anti theft system. Has the HID headlamps and most of the other stuff.

Now all I have to do is wait, and I'm not too good at that. Must practice. Since these Prius get better gas milage in traffic, when I'm stuck in a jam instead of gettin mad I can just consider I'm saving money!

[Pat]

Gary, I know you know I was just kidding about the red ticket magnet. You aren't the total wild and unconcerned about safety kinda guy that attracts tickets.

While you are sitting in traffic, unsure of when it will move again, you will ot have to wonder if it would be good to turn the engine off or not because the car will do the right thing for you. It should be a thing of beauty. The decision making that is right the vast majority of the time is encoded in the software and you don't have to concern yourself with what is essentially "house keeping." Like a good intuitive WYSIWYG Iconic computer interface, PARC's mouse and icons, that Apple stole and sued Microsoft for infringing as contrasted with Unix or earlier versions of CP/M or Microsoft DOS or HeathDOS or...

I don't want to have to think about lowlevel "housekeeping" decisions when using a computing appliance or when driving a transportation cannister. Early cars had manual timing and mixture controls for the driver to adjust to conditons as needed. Now computers adjust for air density and lots of other things several times a second and we drivers don't have to think about it any more than we think about our firing order or fuel air ratio to drive to our destination.

My take on Prius is that it is another step forward in beneficial automation that results in greater economy. Yeah, they give us a computer screen so we can see some of what is going on but it isn't so we can realy do anything about it. It is just for info if you care, not for action. Like the automated cameras that I have called COMA cameras because you could operate one while in a coma, these are almost coma cars.

I mean this coma car thing as a compliment. I believe that smart engineering should be incorporated in a way that it can be leveraged and reused over and over without much need for additional effort to be expended thinking about how to manage energy flow to reduce gas consumption. If you do want to do something yourself to contribute operationally, place the shift switch (switch not mechanical linkage to transmission, no real transmission, not even a CVT, just clever use of a planetary gearset) in B for braking while coasting down a hill and clever you, you got to do something for yourself, not unlike puting a car in D instead of D with an O around it. You can make a difference, you can participate...

Pat

[GaryM]

Yesterday the saleman told me the "B" is to lock it into battery operation. Now you tell me it's for Braking. What's the story here?

You're corrrect about the housekeeping aspect. The software, if well written, should do a better job than a mere human could do.

I remember years back a friend called the folks working the registers at places like MickeyD's BIAs. That stood for Biological Interface Adaptor. They converted your order innto a form that the computer could understand.

The B2 bomber's a good example of your housekeeping. The pilot has not got direct input to the control surfaces. He tells the computer what he wants to do, via the stick and pedals, and the computer adjusts the surfaces as required to get the desired result.