Advice; first REAL truck

[Farmyid]

Hi all,
We have a little homestead and are looking for a truck to do hauling of firewood, machinery snpwplowing and to pull up to a 14,000lb. GVW. trailer. Comfort is not a top priority, this is to be a truck to do work; we have cars to go places in.
I am trying to make sure I get the right sized truck and also to compare across brands. I am wondering if the Ford 250, the GMC Sierra 2500, and the Dodge Ram 2500 are all about the same thing and if they will be able to pull that sized trailer and hold a cord of wood assuming we had the right body on it. Are these trucks too light weight. I am looking at tnn year old diesel engine equipped models as being maybe within budget and not too worn out.
Advice appreciated, Thanks! Mark

[Bird]

Instead of the 250/2500 series trucks (which might do the job but I doubt it), I'd definitely only be looking at the 350/3500 series with dual rear wheels. Then of course you need to consider not only which engine you want, but which transmission, and what rear end gear ratio.

I've hauled half a cord of firewood on 3/4 ton Chev. and Dodge trucks, but no way they'd have handled a full cord.

[Chillimau]

A cord of wood is not going to fit in a regular 8ft pickup bed. A big rick is about it. You could get there with a flat bed and stake sides. I don't know what a cord of wet wood will weigh but you may be overloading even a 1-ton truck's payload. I have a 3500 Dodge and about 4700lbs payload with about 14,000 trailer capacity.

For a ten yr old diesel I would be looking at a Dodge or Ford.

If you just need a work truck, a used medium duty truck is a better value and will have probably outlast several 1-ton trucks.

[Slamfire]

I don't know about Mass. but here in TN our registration fees are based on gmvw ratings. One thing you might be suprised about is the fees associated with the one ton trucks. Check with them before you decide. Then again, a 14.000 lb trailer requires a lot of truck. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Farmyid]

Thanks for the replies. Looking around at what people are using and at the want ads today I had pretty much come to the conclusion thatthe lightest trucks that will be useful start in the 3500 series.
Now, several questions...
I realize that not all of these 3500 trucks are remotely equal, aren't they all going to come with the same basic suspension (weight rating) and hauling abilites? Are some of these trucks rated at LESS than one ton?
I have heard good things about Cummins diesals and Alison transmissions. I know nothing about rear ends other than that if i don't watch my eating mine will grow. Any particular reason to avoid GMC trucks?
I also see a lot of large box trucks of all brands but especially Isuzu and Mitsubishi going very cheap. arent't a lot of these pretty heavey rigs? Just playing around with the idea of turning the box into a shed and buying a dump body for one...
Is 14,000 really a lot to trailer? that is about what my 6500lb tractor, and a decently heavy trailer weigh. I also wonder where I can find an estimate of what logs and cordwood of a given size and species weigh?
So many questions... thanks, Mark

[Gatorboy]

<font color="blue">( Is 14,000 really a lot to trailer? that is about what my 6500lb tractor, and a decently heavy trailer weigh. </font color>

If your 6500 lb tractor and trailer add up to about 14,000 lbs., then that trailer you have must weigh about 7500 lbs! That is one heavy trailer.

I have a 20' equipment trailer rated at 12,000 lbs that weighs about 2000 lbs. So when I put my 7400 lb. Bobcat on it, I am pulling 9400 lbs. To me, that is one heavy load -- I would not ask my K3500 to pull much more than that.

Trailer Towing Chart for Super Duty F-250/F350

Maybe you should look into the Ford F-450 or F-550 for what you want to do with a truck.

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I know nothing about rear ends

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They are expressed in a numerical ratio (revolutions of the driveshaft to one revolution of the wheels). The larger the number the more power you'll have for pulling, while top speed will be lessened and fuel economy may be lessened. In other words, a 4.10 rear end gives more pulling power than a 3.73. Depending on make and model, you will probably find trucks with a 3.20 to a 4.86 rear end (although some of them vary even more than that).

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
an estimate of what logs and cordwood of a given size and species weigh

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Species and degree of dryness will cause a considerable variation, but a guy in the business once told me that "good" oak firewood weighed approximately 3,800 pounds per cord (a cord being 8' x 8' x 4' neatly stacked, or 256 cubic feet).

Is it safe to assume that you also know that the "one ton, 3/4 ton, or even half ton" ratings are a bit misleading; the actual payload capacity is usually at least 1.5 to 2 times that rating?

I know nothing about the Mitsubishi trucks, but I've had a little experience with the Isuzus and they're good trucks. They, and the GMC, can be had with either the Isuzu diesel or the GM gasoline engine. And you mention the Allison tranmissions. I think they're very good, but again, is it safe to assume that you know there are quite a number of different model Allisons (different number of gears, different ratios, different shifting characteristics)?

[Farmyid]

Bird,
It's not safe to assume I know ANYTHING! Thanks for the info. Re load rating, my cord wood here tends to be mixed maple birch and ash - a bit lighter than oak. So I hope a one ton will cover me. Would all 350 series trucke be rated at one ton or are some heavier or lighter?
Re trailer, I may be getting myself in (mental) trouble here because I had hoped I could get a one trailer does everything dump trailer that has ramps for loading the tractor and removable sides to let me haul manure, dirt, logs - whatever I can think of to stuff in there.(they do make them) Someone at a local equipment dealer thought that the 36" deck height of one that i had looked at was unsafe for carrying a tall load like my tractor Maybe this is unrealistic to do with the size truck I can afford, that is haul a 12 or 14 thousand pound GVW load. I can conceed on that one :-)
Trannies, I have heard bad things about some of the automatics and always have prefered standards anyway but that's as much as I really know. Kind of heard the Allison makes a good one, but of course there is more to it than that. Hey, thanks folks for your advice - hopefully I am learning!

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Would all 350 series trucke be rated at one ton or are some heavier or lighter?

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All the 350/3500 trucks are usually referred to as "one ton", but of course the payload capacity is different for one with dual rear wheels vs. single rear wheels. And the GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating); i.e., the total maximum recommended weight for the truck, trailer, occupants, payload, etc. will vary depending on which engine, transmission, and rear end it has. Of course, sometimes "overload" springs are added to increase the weight capacity as long as you don't exceed the capacity of the axles, tires, wheels, etc. Payload may also vary depending on whether it's a standard cab vs. extended cab vs. crew cab; i.e., as the weight of the truck itself increases, the payload may decrease.

If you were looking at new trucks, all the manufacturers have charts showing the payload and/or towing capacity of the different combinations of body style, engine, and transmission, and while they may vary from year to year, looking at the charts for new ones will give you a fair idea for the older ones, too.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
So I hope a one ton will cover me

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Just for a couple of examples: One of my brothers used to have an '86 one ton crew cab dually Chev., 454 gasoline engine, 3 speed automatic, and he hauled 5,100 pounds of drill bits from Anchorage to Prudhoe Bay with no problems. Right now he has a '95 Ford crew cab dually with the Powerstroke diesel and pulls a 37' fifth wheel travel trailer that weighs over 16,000 pounds.

You can pull a much heavier trailer if it's a fifth wheel or gooseneck than you can with a conventional trailer.

In '88, I was pulling a 32' fifth wheel that had 2,500 pounds on the pin, plus about 500 pounds of tools and such in the bed of the truck. I did that with no problems with a one ton Chevrolet (single rear wheels), but it had a 350 gas engine and 3.73 rear end, so I was not entirely satisfied with the performance, and upgraded in '89 to a one ton with dual rear wheels, 454 engine and 4.10 rear end. It had the 3-speed automatic and pulled the trailer just fine, but then I added a Gear Vendors overdrive that gave the equivalent of a 3.20 rear end and let me run on the highway at lower RPMs on the engine.

[Chillimau]

The allison transmission has only recently been available in the chevy/gmc pickups, maybe since 2000 model year? In a medium duty truck I was thinking more along the lines of a 5500-6500 chevy/gmc or an international. Like what you would see on on of the large penske, ryder, u-haul rental trucks and some of the small dump trucks and the lumber delivery trucks. Quite a few of those around here for sale in the $7,000 to $10,000 range. The isuzu and mitsu might be good trucks if the weight rating are sufficient. Maybe Gary in Indiana will chime in, I beleive he has some good knowledge of these class of trucks. If you could find a little dump truck and get a 12,000lb bumper pull trailer that would be a nice set-up.


In a ten year old truck the Chevy/GMC diesel 6.2 and 6.5 was the worst of the big three. Wouldn't be my first choice unless price was right. Personally, in a Chevy/GMC P/U of that age I would be looking for the 454 with a turbo 400 trans and a 4:10 rear end. That will still probably be a little short for 14,000lbs but would handle 9,000-10,000.

Like Gatorboy said for tranporting a 6500lb tractor a 12,000 or 14,000 lb low deck trailer is going to weigh 2000 to 3000 lbs. I have a 18' gooseneck flatbed utility rated at 12,000lbs and the empy trailer weighs almost 3,000 lbs. If you are looking at a trailer with the deck over the wheels, you can still haul the tractor but it will have a higher center of gravity. You will see the 580 case backhoes hauled like that on a tandem dual trailer with about a 20,000 lb weight rating. Just takes care to realize you can't drive it like a sports car or even a empty pickup truck.

Gary