propane tanks???

[egon]

Pat:

Cathodic protection is sort of universal due the placement of materials on the periodic table.

The cathodic bed can be buried away from the tank and replaced as required without disturbing the tank. This is done on pipelines all the time. Soil type and condition must be tested and monitored.

There are isolating kits to keep the tank insulated from the supply/discharge lines.

C3 is also heavier than air and anytime you want to access the equipment tied on to the tank it should be considered a confined area. And no, just having your wife stand by while you go down won't work as she will probably join you in the hole.

Internal corrosion should not be a problem unless you receive a n offspec load with H2S and/or water in it.

Enough said as you will be talking to people with experience on buried tanks.

Egon

As advised by Pat the periodic table should read Electomotive series.

[TimSullivan]

<font color="green">Can you think of any other questions that I should be asking if I knew what I was doing?

TIA for any help,
</font color>

In our area some companies will provide the tank at no charge. You just have to agree to buy propane from them for five years. It is their tank so their problem if anything goes wrong. The per gallon price is the same so no hidden costs.

[Stoneheartfarm]

Pat,

Just out of curiosity, check with them about water tables. The description you gave of your location got me wondering if a shallow water table could be a problem. (Would the tank float?)

Steve

[Pat]

Steve, Thanks for your concern. I'm sure I would have thought of that, especially if the tank floated up out of the ground like a coffin in a cheap horror flick! Gas line isn't so expensive that I can't remote the tank a ways off and surround it with plantings to hide it but I am still interested in having it closer and buried for safety so I will pursue that option with some local propane delivery outfits and see if any of them know squat about buried tanks and their maintenance.

My water table is variable not only as its average depth is based on precipitation history but also on location. I have everythig from surface seeps that run for months following a good rain to surface rock to whatever. If I burrow into a hillside, even if the hillside is artificial as in the case of a dam thick enough to safely allow this, then there isn't any water table issue. I have a place not too far from the shed side of the new shop-garage bld where there is a bluff overlooking a creek that is dammed up to form a pond. The control water height of the pond is significantly below the surface of the bank. I could excavate there and bury a tank with impunity. Alternatively, I could surface mount it and partially berm around it on two sides. The downhill side would be toward the water course and away from the house. This would limit shrapnel to a high angle trajectory in the sector toward the house. I could also transplant some cedars to the berm side to further mask the ugly sucker.

Reflecting and thinking on this for a couple consecutive seconds, I think maybe the best deal is to dig a bunker that is open on one long side (toward the bluff) to prevent fume accumulation and use the excavated dirt to berm the other three sides. That would give me nearly the safety of an underground installation and none of the corrosion concerns, or floating out of the ground when empty concerns. If there were a big leak, and the wind was calm, the pond would fill up (above the water and below the dam top) with propane untill it overflowed in the 12 inch drain into the next pond in series and repeat the process. IT wold not overflow into the walkout basement area as that is sloped monotonically down toward the lower pond.

If thre were a large accumulaltion of propane on the surface of the pond and someone were standing on the dam and lit a cagarette and tossed the lit match into the pond, that would be spectacular but not hurt the house.

If I recall, and this is purely from unassisted memory, water weighs about 8 1/2 lbs per gallon, lube oil about 6 1/2, and gasoline about 7 1/2 lbs per gallon... uh errr ahhh I may have switched gas and oil... Anyway propane is lighter than gasoline, probably about 6 lbs per gallon, and will absolutely float on water. Likely with a reserve buoyancy margin sufficient to float a propane tank too, ESPECIALLY when the tank isn't full and they never are unless they are dangerously overfilled and about to pop their protective relief device. I have never witnessed that event in person but from what I have heard I don't want to be too close if it happens. Talk about flippin' your BIC!

I had an aluminum 80 cuft SCUBA tank go off right next to me in the cockpit of one of my sailboats and that is relatively harmless except for the LOUD pop, the sustained loud noise of escaping air, and the opportunity it gives you to hurt yourself when it startles you.

Thanks for asking and having me focus some attention on the problem. I think I have converged, through the above iterations, on a satisfactory install plan. I have some used concrete blocks that were a stem wall to a rollaway house that was rolled away. I can take that stem down and use those blocks with some scrap rebar to make a three sided wall to keep the bunker from having dirt slough off into it. It is easier than forming and pouring concrete. Just dry stack the blocks and rebar and 100% grout in the hollow cells of the blocks. Just about zero talent required so it isn't too much of a challenge.

Thanks for your patience. Watching me think can be as exciting as watching paint dry, almost.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

I'll be checking in with the propane folks about a 1000 gallon above ground tank. They may want to haggle me down to a smaller tank since they may not think I "NEED" that much tank as I am heating with heat pumps. I guess I'll point out the propane direct vent fireplaces and parlor stove, the propane backup furnaces installed in conjunction with two of the heat pumps, two gas ranges, gas dryer (maybe), propane outlet for patio BBQ and mantle lights, the propane outlet in the shop for smelting etc. and the propane fired backup generator (yes I finally decided). If they don't like it, I have alternative suppliers who may or I can buy a tank outright and buy propane from wherever I want.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Stoneheartfarm]

Pat,

Main reason I asked is because I've seen LP tanks float. Every few years we get a real good flood down on the river, and I've seen tanks go drifting off across people's lawns (along with other interesing things like piles of firewood, lawn furniture, etc). Don't know if it would float up out of a hole in the ground or not.

I think the blast radius on a 500 gallon pig is between 1/4 and 1/2 mile. (Not sure, I was told once, but figured I wouldn't be alive to measure it anyway. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] )

Steve

[Pat]

Propane tanks should have little trouble floating right up out of saturated soil. Heavy concrete septic tanks will float up out of the ground with little trouble at all if they are installed empty and you get a rain. My installer dissasembled a steel well house to get to the controls to be able to run the pump to fill the tank he had just installed out of concern that it would float up if it rained. He then reassembled the steel building, leaving it "securely" locked, just like he found it.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]