Very old homestead

[Pat]

This afternoon we were at Runestone State Park near Heavener, Oklahoma. The runestone is a very large slab of sandstone stood up on edge and carved with "runes" which are believed to be of ancient Scandinavian origin (Vikings) Early settlers and other white folk in the area after Christopher Columbus, attibuted the writings to the Indians. The Indians didn't have a written lalnguage then and besides couldn't read it. Still for years it was known as Indian rock.

Scolars have studied this rock for decades and most credible sources believe it to be most likely Viking from about 1100 AD.
A Scandinavian scolar translated it as, Glome's land or Glome's Valley. Aparently a land claim or "deed of title" in favor of a Viking named Glome who is thought to have sailed up the Mississippi to the Arkansas river and up it to get close overland to this location. 3-4 other similar rock writings have been found in Oklahoma, interestingly in a straight line. Most of the other writings are too short to substantiate a defensible translation but are of the same "alphabet."

[egon]

Pat:

It would be interesting to know when and how many others predating Columbus have visited and may even have stayed in North America.

From the few books I have read it would seem that there were more than just a few isolated incidents.

Egon

[Pat]

Egon, Have you read any of Berry Fell's stuff? "Bronze Age America" or "America BC" or "In Plain Sight" by Gloria Farley?

There has been some contraversy surrounding the Epigraphic Society or at leat some of its members. Nevertheless, attacks by institutionalized fossilized mainstream folks not withstanding, there is a lot to learn from sopme of these writings. Questions that can't be answered with "traditional" information.

Gloria Farley is getting up in years and will not be with us a whole lot longer. She studied with and worked with Berry Fell (now deceased). She led the effort over decades to get Runestone State Park established and get properly scrutinized scholarly investigation of the various runestones found in Oklahoma.

It is difficult to come to a conclusion as to the origin of these stones, other than Vikings or persons transported in their ships. Alternative explanations just don't hold up. Some clain the writings on the stones are a hoax.

OK, who, way back before statehood would have been a scholar fluent in an ancient dialect of a Scandinavian lanuguage who would have wandered around Oklahoma (and other parts of the country) writing on rocks so that many years later folks would be fooled into thinking Vikings had been here? There is also a possibility that space aliens intervened but I'll go with the Viking version.

The Pottawatomie indians (I live in Pottawatomie county) have been noted for not looking like indians. No big or hooked noses, not particulalrly high cheekbones, lot of green eyes, more folks without dark straight hair, eye shapes definitley not of Asian origin. The tribal history has them originating on the east coast of Canada and moving down into what is the US. There was a big rift over religion, and the folks who are our Pottawatomie split off and ventured south. These are the folks who are now called "Citizen Pottawatomie" since they elected to become citizens of the US. They hold elections to select their Chairperson (not called a chief). I have met the curent Chairman and spent a couple hours talking with him. Intelligent and fascinating individual. Into registered angus cattle and AI. He came to our water district ground breaking ceremony and gave a traditional blessing with burning bark and an owls wing. The tribe put up a LOT of $ to help the water district get going.

I have met other Pottawatomie (full blood) and you would never "make" them as indian in a lineup. One is a retired army Colonel who was in helicopters. OK, so if they aren't of asian extraction like the "other" indians, who are they and where did they come from? I wonder who had access to and perhaps brought large numbers of folks to the eastern Canadian shore?

Pat

[Chuck52]

My son is studying Archaeology in college. I was of mixed feelings when he announced his plans, because it seems to me he might have fun earning a living. On the other hand, I find these kinds of questions fascinating. Greece, Egypt and the like come to mind most often when thinking of Archaeological digs. Think af all the great things to study here in the States....not to metion I'd just as soon he not visit the middle east anytime soon!
[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Chuck

[egon]

Chuck:

To me it has always been an interesting subject but only for knowledge sake. It's not one in which I could succeed.

The world over has interesting artifacts many of which seem to be relagated to the non study section for some reason or other.

Best wishes for your son in his chosen vocation.

Egon

[egon]

Pat:

I do not beleive I've read any of the authors you have mentioned but I have heard about the Runes you have mentioned.

The little reading I have done has been of a sporadic and diversive Nature. Just enough to arouse my interest and question the accuracy of history we have been taught in school.

Here in Nova Scotia there is purported to be a site built in the late 1300 by Henry Sinclair. Books on this site vary in credulance as do many of the others I have read on diferent areas.

The Public libraries may not be the best source of accreddited information.

Egon

[Pat]

Chuck, There is a lot more to life than making money. If the academic life appeals to him (get a Phd or else in archeology you are a grunt laborer for someone who did) and he isn't plagued with the "instant gratification" syndrome so prevalent in our times, then he cold be into some fascinating research. My "take" is that many archeologists minds are as fossilized as their finds. There is THE party line so to speak and to embrace anything novel or unaccepted by "appropriately approved senior statesmen" can lead to the equivalent of "shunning'. That said, I think he could have a very enjoyable carreer if he really really likes searching for the truth more than $.

Pat

[Chuck52]

Pat,

I fully support him (literally!) in his quest for a career he hopefully will find to his liking. Since, to my admittedly biased eyes, he seems to be rather gifted and would do well in anything he chose to pursue, I must confess to having tried to steer him in the direction of the natural sciences or engineering, where, in addition to stimulating work, there is probably a greater probability of financial gain. I didn't push too hard, just suggested. If he stays with archaeology, he knows he'll be going for a PhD, and he also knows, through my own experiences in academia, that he likely will not be challenging Bill Gates as America's Richest Man. It doesn't bother him, and I can live with it too, though now I guess I'll have to buy more PowerBall tickets if I want to open my brewpub when I retire.

As to having an independent mindset, I'm pretty sure he's got that! So far, few of his professors have given him reason to consider them for inclusion into his list of infallible experts. I'm not on the list either. His mother may be.

Chuck

[Pat]

Chuck, maybe the independent streak is just a byproduct of geography. ("I'm from Missouri, show me!")
I don't have a problem with diverting brainpower away from making things work like enginnering, medicine,
and such. I have a strong bellief that we need musicians, artists, archeologists, historians, and such to
ensure the conitinued enrichment of our culture. Still someone has to do what is required in the economic
engine department to generate enough surplus to be able to pay thecultural enrichment folks AND the
burger flippers too. Somewhere somebody has to make things work so we can afford the archeologists
and they don't become burger flippers.

Remind your son that one of the most carrer enhancing things he can learn to say if he pursues his studies
in archelology but doesn't get his Phd is, "Do you want fries with that?"

Had I chosen to stay in physics (did not get Phd) I would most likely have been an electronics technician
for someone with a Phd. Luckily I worked outside of the physicist title and got to be an electronic engineer
and several other fun things. Finally wound up in managing the engineering of training solutions for selected
Naval systems including smart weapons. Mostly computer based but not exclusively.

My wife has been on archeological digs while she was going to UCLA (she was a grunt sleeping on the ground
and diging and sifting dirt, not a Phd) and still has strong interests in the field. Visiting "The old homestead"
(Runestone) really made her day. She has been in communications with Mrs.Gloria Farley, the lady responsible for
decades of effort to get the park established and the runestone scientifically decoded and preserved.

If you have time, I would strongly recommend reading Glorias book, "In Plain Sight", it might also be of interest
to your budding archeologist if you can get him away from rreruns of SG-1.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Chuck52]

Just ran "In Plain Sight" through the library search and didn't find it. I'll check the public library, too. I've read a fair number of fictional accounts of early visitors to the Americas, so it would be good to read something more factual in this vein.

Yesterday, after reading your post, I looked up Melungeons on the web. They are another of those groups whose origins are open to speculation.....everything from the Lost Tribe of Israel to simply descendants of Native Americans of various tribes, and slaves. I'm originally from eastern Tennessee, where many of them are located, and I remember being warned about going into their communities as they were considered to be quite unfriendly toward strangers. They probably had cause.

Chuck