Career Ideas

[Pat]

Chippy, In general, agriculture is not much of a paying proposition on a small scale. Few people actually make a positive cash flow on small acreages unless they develop a niche where they have a competitive advantage.

Most of what I see in smaller operations, especially in cattle, is retirement checks subsidizing what are actually hobby farms or ego farms (I'm a cattleman!) There are a lot of folks with a 9-5 gig in town to have the money to support their illusion of being farmers or ranchers. In many instances a good hard nosed appraisal of the "buisness" would detect undeclared bankruptcy.

A lot of folks here about "run a few head of cattle", it is a respectable thing to do, gives them a sense of membership in a way of life but rarely makes much profit. More often than not refusal to adhere to best modern practices reduces or elliminates actual profit. For example, if your "calf check" goes to the feed store to pay for feed and supplies what did your effort and time buy you besides a dangersous expensive hobby?

With your motivation and past record of working long hours, perhaps you should consider what skills you have that are marketable. Fewer and fewer people are willing to show up on time clean and sober and actually perform. Every sub contractor I have talked to all had the same complaint... finding honest help that new how to do anything and would reliably show up and do it.

If you are set on agriculture, either find something that others are sucessful at that you can emulate or find a niche where you have a comparitive advantage or at least a favorable economic climate.

Not to be too negative or discouraging about brush hogging or otherwise working your tractor or growing tomatos or whatever but there are just a lot of folks moving out of the "burbs" to the country who want to find something to do part or even full time to make some money and or defray the costs of the newfound toy universe (ag machines). Many of these set low prices to ensure getting work but are not realistic, often not including amortization of equipment, money set aside for repairs and replacements of capital equipment. They buy a tractor and some equipment and will work for little more than the cost of fuel and lunch just to be able to get paid to do something they think of as fun. Good for them, BAD FOR YOU. There are always folks buying some dirt equipment of some sort who think they can pay for it by working some part time jobs and maybe make a couple bucks. In general they do not last but there is a constant stream of them. To what effect? It keeps someone with realistic prices that are fair and might keep them in buisness from being able to compete in a fair segment of the market. The guys who are doing it as a hobby (whether or not admitted) actually ruin the market for professionals in some endeavors.

Hopefully you will choose wisely and not burn your nest egg in some thin margin enterprise that any Johny come lately with a tractor could replicate if he didn't mind having to subsidise the "project", just to get started you know.

* You Can Farm: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Start & Succeed in a Farming Enterprise by Joel Salatin (Introduction), Allan Nation (Paperback)
* Small-Scale Livestock Farming: A Grass-Based Approach for Health, Sustainability, and Profit by Carol Ekarius (Paperback)
* Making Your Small Farm Profitable by Ron Macher, Howard W., Jr. Kerr (Paperback)
* Storey's Basic Country Skills: A Practical Guide to Self-Reliance by M. John Storey, et al (Paperback)
* Successful Small-Scale Farming: An Organic Approach by Karl Schwenke, Ben Watson (Editor) (Paperback)

Pat

[Knight9]

One of the good u-pick or farmer pick items up our way is Saskatoon berries. One acre of well tended Saskatoons can produce 3000-10000 lbs of Saskatoons. 10 Acres can produce $80K a year.

Check out Saskatoon Farm for info. Particularily the "About Saskatoons" and "Production Guide" links.

Kevin

[fivestring]

"I could go on and on but I don't want to monoplize the thread."

Go on....

You got me interested now! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[fivestring]

I don't know about your area, but around here, Mexican food is hot! [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
I mean, a big-seller! [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

All of our grocery stores have their own "Mexican" section with the foods of that market. On those lines, I would think about peppers and other spices used by them, or beans as a specialty crop.

[Chippy]

Thanks Pat, I appreciate your realistic take on the situation. I think you are right on the money for the most part. I live in the heart of what once was a rich small family dairy region. Now much of that is just old falling down barns and fallow fields of goldenrod and autumn olive. Kind of sad!

One argument I want to make on behalf of myself and thousands of people like me all over the country; I am trying to build wealth. Not just make money. This is also includes increasing my value as a human being, increasing my self worth, and becoming closer to God. I know what it takes to make money. Unfortunately that took away from all of the other aspects of being truly wealthy!

Also from a purely financial perspective, this kind of land development will build wealth. For example I will use my apartment building. I bought it 11 years ago for $40,000. It was in terrible shape and unattractive but was a money make because it had low overhead. Over that time I worked my butt off and repaired and replaced things, I painted and cleaned, I became friends with my tenants, I added value to them and I have doubled the rents. I recently turned down $125K cash in hand because I think I can do better in a few more years. An economist would say I lost a fortune. If you counted up my time and all the nickels and dimes the building was a poor investment. I say poopie! I am proud to own it and my tenants like living here.

That is the plan for my farm. The land has been in the family 4 going on 5 generations (7 year old son). Very little has been done to keep up the farm since my mother closed the dairy operations in 1988. I recently bought the farm for fair market value (1k/acre) from my mother. My plan is to get this place back into shape, have some fun, teach my son about life on the farm, and build wealth (all kinds) by planting trees, building fence, and increasing athstetics. Even if I die pennyless, I will die a wealthy man.

So yes, I understand the economies of farming and don't expect to make much if any money - but I do plan on getting rich quick! Thanks again - God Bless [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Gary, Peppers are easy to grow and a lot of folks do it. I had 9 varieties in less than a 100 sq ft plot along with tomatos over 8 ft tall and other vegies. I would guess that to have much success with peppers would require large commercial quantities. While certain varieties might command a decent price, in general, hot peppers aren't a high dollar item. A potential pepper farmer might want to check with several local Mexican eateries and determine interest in buyinig fresh and or dried peppers grown expressly for them.

I believe the original idea was to make max $ (in a small scale agricultural endeavor) for the time invested and not unduly interfere with fishing. That is why I suggested ice fishing as it wouldn't clash so much with agriculture.

I checked out the berry site and didn't see much info on picking. Aye, there is the rub, Agricultural labor! Got a lot of younguns you can keep away from TV, GameBoy, and other recreations for wastrels? I have friends with commercial peach orchards in Stratford, Oklahoma the peach capital of Oklahoma. Man oh man do they have peaches in abundance and in many varieties. Unfortunately it is difficult to find anyone who will pick peaches at a cost that will permit the orchard owner a profit. A couple of his grandkids are the best hands he has had the last few years but they can only do so much (not enough for commercial quantities) and he has been threatening to just push the trees out with his ENOURMOUS John Deere tractor and expand his grazing acreage.

Years ago they used to have a highway fruit stand which at times was run on the honor system and was a commercial success. That has been gone for years, converted to the office of their home building enterprise, and now there are only a couple stands left (some are only open around the time of the FAMOUS Stratford peach festival) where there were nearly a dozen at one time.

My intent is to not to preach doom and gloom but economic reality. Labor intensive crops require plentiful cheap labor. Can you say BRACERO? Seen any indentured servants lately? It is hard (or economically impossible) for one person to compete with corporate farming in a labor intensive endeavor. Economy of scale will win out. Take iceberg lettuce as an example.

The Imperial Valey of SOCAL is the nation's salad bowl and ships the majority of iceberg lettuce that is consumed in the nation. Chances are a restuarant salad eaten on the east coast is made with lettuce picked just a couple days earlier in the Imperial valley. Mostly Mexican fieldhands pick the lettuce placing it on conveyor belts extending out both sides of a large processing machine that cruises through the filed at night with large worklights to illuminate the scene. The lettuce comes out of the integrated "person-machine" operation rinsed, trimmed, wrapped, boxed, iced, and is loaded into a truck at the end of the field for transport to the railhead for overnight shipping eastward via the "Salad Express."

That is a hard act to follow! To my knowledge, there are no small plot commercial lettuce growers competing to produce iceberg lettuce. The corporate process does not scale down well. Traditional methods can't compete. Don't invest a lot of time and $ in setting up a small one man iceberg lettuce farming
operation.

What am I saying, really? Consider trying to find something that isn't super labor intensive or isn't well suited for large scale operations, or requires specialized skill or knowledge that isn't common place.

There is a lot of intertia which over time contributes to establishing traditional methods when bonified sceince has proven them to be inferior. An example: most folks around here with cattle put great importance in starting winter with a barn full of hay. Good science tested by the Noble Foundation has shown that in this area only 2-4% of nutritional value is lost by leaving the hay standing in the field and controlling stock access to it. Whether you hire someone to bale your hay for $ or a percentage of the hay or you have your own equipment, the diesel fuel alone will exceed 2-4% of the value of the hay and the wear and tear on you and the equipment not to count your time (time discussed separately below). Published verified repeatable reliable science has little or no effect on actions for the majority of small practitioners who carry on with traditional methods. The time to bale hay, put it away, take it out and distribute to stock exceeds the time required to control stock access to hay-in-the-filed, lessening the value of the activity.

What did he say? Get the best information available and act on it. There are better ways to plow than with a bent stick, even though others might not agree.

Buisness idea... How about a Bed and Breakfast/"Dude Farm" where a family or a mom and kids can come and feed the chickens, gather eggs, milk a cow or goat, pick vegies in season, pick fruit and get to take 1/2 of it home at no extra cost. Gather kindling, tote wood for the evening fire, see or participate in canning, baking bread, candle making, birding, animal track identification wild raccoon feeding (from a safe distance) weather permitting take a ride in a hay filled cart pulled by a (choose one: goat, dog, pony, emu, deer-Rudolph?, 6 white geese, or a dozen ferrets in Sgt Pepper costumes). For those not interested in spending the night there could be supervised picnics with either pond fishing or a nature walk with your informative guide service to point out the various flora and fauna indigenous to the area. A digital camera could economically record many of the "KODAK" moments with reprints available for a slight miminal charge to preserve this experience. In winter, with proper prior planning, there could be a Christmas tree cutting hike out in the "woods" where various desireable varieties of Christmas trees have been planted in a random manner so as to NOT resemble a sterile tree farm. Do yo have or can you grow sugar maples so the visitors can see an example of syrup making?

There are just a lot of folks out there who can't buy an acreage in the country for whatever reason but would love for their children to have a storybook country experience and memories. You can be the surogate grandpaw or uncle on the farm that they can come to visit. This was just a randon musing of possibilities. Serious thought could prune potential clinkers and add potential winners.

Remember, if you only do what has always been done, you will only get what you always got. Look for a niche where some circumstance, skill, ability, or knowledge will give you a competitive advantage even if that advantage is innovation or controlleld risk taking.

Like crafts?, woodworking? There is a good market for picture frames and other craft type items made from recycled antique wood such as from old weathered buildings. Any around you could buy cheap to dismantle, cart home, and turn into profitable items to sell? It wouldn't matter what hours of the day you did the construction so fishing could be easily worked in (and not just ice fishing.) If Planters were incorporated into some of your offerings, then seedlings could be supplied with the art and make it more appealilng. Smaller peppers could be a good choice for that or grape tomatos (way smaller than typical cherry tomatos and they can be dwarfed by pruning.)

FiveString (et al), I really could go on and on and on but this forum isn't for me to write a book and if this gets too much bigger it will need chapter titles and a table of contents.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Chippy, Apparently we were editing and sending at about the same time for your last post and my immediately preceeding one. You won't get this in time to heed its advice but here goes...

Skip down to the part of my previous post where I suggest selling a wholesome (STORRYBOOK) experience to folks who need one.

Ahh, send him your tired your hungry your teeming masses of city dwellers bereft of true life and hungry for a back to nature authentic down home country farm experience at their uncle for hire's place.

Most of what you would do to gear up for such an operation is probably not too far out of line with things you would probably want to do anyway. About those Christmas trees to cut down on foraging hikes, you could probably have other guests enjoying planting them in nicer weather. Ditto fish. Some folks would enjoy participating in stocking them and others in catching them. Got ponds? Chickens that kids wold enjoy feeding might in turn be feedstock for classes in chicken preparation for adults who are considering raising chickens for food but haven't a clue how to butcher them properly.

You could offer a class that covers the essentials of chicken raising, including a demonstration of killing, scalding, plucking, and preparing chicken for the table. Of course, a chicken lunch would be included. These "reality" sessions would be scheduled so as not to interfere with or be viewed by little kids who want to name the chickens and feed them.

Ditto, rabbits, fish or ... Seminars in farm skills, besides the practical issues of how to do the things you might need to do to survive, depending on your self reliance (not to get too entwined in survivalist doctrine) are important to a growing segment of our society. Lots of folks dream of moving out into the country and would pay to participate and or learn a bit about the skills that are so rapidly just going away as more and more meals come from a production line at a fast food outlet or a factory producing QUICK AND EASY frozen and prepackaged this and that.

I think with proper marketing you could sell a wholesome country farm experience in many guises. Fun chores for kids, contact with Disneyesque animals, and that angle as well as serious seminars for food prep from live animals, curing, smoking, etc.

Only your imagination would limit your course syllabus or the variety of down home visits to their paid uncle's farm that could be offered.

I think you have the "attitude" that would be required to enjoy sharing the way it was with folks who otherwise might never experience these things in a positive friendly faily environment.

I can see those adds now... Spend a weekend at Your Country Uncle's Farm and relax while enjoying an experience of a lifetime, something your children will never forget! Etc etc and of course etc.

When you are rich and famous as well as wealthy you can send me a THEME T-shirt from your gift shop (XXLT, please.)

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[AndyF]

>> I am trying to build wealth. Not just make money. This is also includes increasing my value as a human being, increasing my self worth, and becoming closer to God. I know what it takes to make money. Unfortunately that took away from all of the other aspects of being truly wealthy!

If you haven't read it yet, you will enjoy this book, "Your Money or Your Life". This book provides some good advice on living a whole life instead of making a living and helped me as I made the transition from making a good income while away from home a lot to making less, but being able to spend both quality and quantity time with my family.

Regarding the ag ideas, there can be a little bit of money in produce and berries especially if you sell at retail or close to it. Through the summer I sell at two farmers markets and from a self serve roadside stand. This year, I will also be selling a weekly box of fruit and vegetables to a church group of ~30 families. Next year I am planning on adding a greenhouse for season extension to capture premium early season prices for tomatoes and winter greens. We started small and are adding a little bit each year to round out our offering, expand our selling season and keep the workload at a manageable level.

Between the farm sales and my wife's teaching salary we make enough to live the way we want to live and also provide an opportunity for our kids to learn about business and to earn a decent amount of spending money. My kids help out at market, they do some of the picking, especially raspberries and one of them does a fair amount of tractor work also.