Smooth bore .22

[Pat]

Gary et al, I have shot the CCI blue plastic bullet shaped rounds filled with shot and other brands with elongated casings crimped on the ends. At least one brand (I don't recall which) of the "shot" shells were actually filled with a small bundle of fine wire (flechettes?) which were devastating at really close range but had the aeordynamics of toothpicks. The fine wire version had the least capacity for collateral damage since the energy bled off so quickly at extended ranges. You wouldn't be blowing holes in the shed/barn roof with those!

NONE of these various styles really "print" well in my experience and at extended ranges posted above in this thread there were considerable "holes" without covereage. Maybe I wasn't lucky to have a gun that just happened to do well with shot shells.

Gary, $200 for the Mo-Skeet-O might be cheaper than the gunsmith suggestions. Was it singleshot, repeater, autoloader or what?

My most recent bill (last week) at the gunsmith was $200 and all he did was turn down the last 1/2 inch of two muzzles, thread them for 1/2 x 28 for a distance of 0.4 inches and make a thread protector to screw on to replace the removed material, AND reset the front sights back behind the threaded portion.

This is pretty simple machining. Nothing complicated. I could get it done better for less but with shipping and insurance it was a wash so I chose to support my local craftsperson so he may be there for me another time.

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[egon]

Pat:

A good gunsmith would be able to provide a smooth bore. With the removal of the rifling protusions you would be at the optimum size.

Curious why threads on end of a barrel or is that just for a flash reducer.

Egon

[Pat]

Egon, It is to allow me to share the GEMTECH OUTBACK model suppressor that I use on my Walther P-22 and Ruger 10-22 with my Ruger 22-45 and Mk-II target pistols. Given the cost of the Outback and the ATF hassle and expense for registration of Class 3 firearms (including national agency check, photos, fingerprints, signed form from county sheriff assenting to the registration, etc.), it seemed like the thing to do at the time. They consider the suppressor a Class 3 firearm and track it by serial number just as if it were a full automatic Tommy gun.

I scanned it in with my Leatherman (a tad over 4 inches long) as a size ref. Yes a scanner will take a decent picture.

It is light weight and rugged aluminum, T-6 aircraft aluminum, I think. Pht tink, pht tink, pht tink! Tink assumes metallic target. I assume I will get a lot of service from it on my scoped Mk-II and follow up shots will be a tad more plentiful if the varmints aren't spooked by muzzle blast and supersonic round. The P-22 with the Outback chronos at about 1000 ft/sec with CCI Blazers of MiniMags. With the 10-22 you quiet the muzzle blast but the round is supersonic, quite a crack on its own so I use Remington or Aguila subsonics in the 10-22. I have tried the Aguila primer only and all you hear is the hammer fall and firing pin strike but they aren't peppy enough for much range or reliable stopping power for anything much bigger than a field mouse unless you are close enougn to hit it with a rock.

I'm sure you have heard of the 22 mag rimfire necked down to a .177 bullet. I have a hobby project on the back burner for years waiting for time to play that is to use a .177 in a sabot in a .22 LR case (unmodified) in a standard .22 gun. Why, because it seemed like fun way back when I first thought of it (nearly 40 yrs ago).

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[egon]

Pat
Up here in the frozen north those are not even registerable.

Thoughts for a home built have crossed my mind but the hassle and consequences really would not be woth the effort.

Egon

[GaryM]

Neat toy! Now if you can lock the slide, you'd have what the troops in 'Nam called a "hushpuppy". Basically what you have, but with a locked slide there's no action noise. You've probably seen these.

I bought 2 boxes of the primer only rounds at the last gunshow 2 weeks ago. Haven't tried them yet. The box warns that they are only for handguns as the projectile might not make it out the barrel of a rifle. Not a disaster if you realize it, just a bit of bother to drive it out.

I also bought some sabot rounds for my spring piston RWS air rifle. They look to be about .12 dia with a .177 plastic sabot that seals the bore. Another thing to try out soon.

The .22 shotgun was a bolt action. don't recall seeing a magazine, so it was probably single shot. I guess I should have bought it. Maybe I'll see it again next time.

[Pat]

Egon, Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer...

Actually quite quiet units are simple to make in many different ways. I know how but refrain as the penalty is far out of proportion to any perceived benefit. Haven't been to a big gun show in a long time but there used to be booksellers there with all manner of truly frightening books on how to do a lot of illegal things like full auto conversions, suppressors, bombs, boobytraps and on and on.

I saw a private shooting range (in a crowded city situation) that used sound absorbent material to line a steel culvert that was burried in sand and covered with topsoil to support landscaping flowers. There were lights at the end of the long dark tunnel and an endless clothesline target placing and retrieving system. It was about 36 inches in diameter by 50 ft long and had a smaller pipe mounted at right angles at the far end. This served as a mount for an exhaust fan that drew out all the smoke. In use you held the weapon about as far into the tube as was comfortable and that was that. Pretty quiet. He originally built a padded front end with a view port and a sleve into which the shooting hand protruded. It was for max quiet but he determined that it was a pain to use and not needed as it was pretty quiet without it.

I thought it was cool to be able to target shoot in an urban neighborhood. Not legal but cool.

I opt for legal and cool.

Gary, With a slight modification of my two hand target shooting grip, I can hold the bolt closed on my Ruger autoloader pistols as well as the Walther P-22 by using my off hand thumb.

The Colibri are OK but not as much punch as some of my air rifles. The Super Colibri have enough punch to be useful. They are still carryijng the "No long guns" notice but I don't know anyone who has had a short round with them. I have fired several boxes and my only complaint is that they won't cycle any autoloaders. Of course, Remington and Aguila (Maker of Colibri primer only rounds) subsonics cycle the walther just fine with the supressor but don't reliably cycle the 22-45. Maybe after it is well broken in, it will.

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[GaryM]

pat,

I'm looking at the box of rounds I bought and it's marked ".22 Super Colibri" and the manufacturer is Aguila. It has a 20 grain projectile. They are manufactured in Mexico. I'm going to try them in all my .22 handguns. I have a Ruger MII, a High Standard Citation, a Beretta Mod 21A, and a S&W Mod 43. The Mod 43 will probably be best as it's a revolver and I don't have to worry about feeding issues.

I'd heard of using a buried sewer pipe for a range and know that ventilation is important. I'd heard a story, perhaps not true, that one user didn't bother with ventilation and the unburned power particles suspended in the pipe ignited and a ball of flame rolled out into the guys basement and scared to pants off of him.

[Pat]

Gary, Aguila makes good ammo, especially for the price. The Colibri and Super Colibri are both just fine but the "standard" Colibri are short range lower velocity and I would hesitate to fire them in just any long gun. I personally know of no one who has had a short round in the Super Colibri fired from a rifle, ignoring the warning on the boxes. The Mk II has some trouble with feeding the Super Colibri but not enough to stop my use. Likewise I experience some difficulty with them in the 10-22 but not too bad.

Of course the wheel gun will digest them just fine. The only revolver we have in .22 is a thoroughly thrashed imported single six cowboy thingy that is used for natural point of aim shooting or as a doorstop (too ugly to have on the desk as a paper weight.) I wish we still had my wife's old BearCat as its diminuitive size seems entirely appropriate for the Colibri.

Don't give up on the autoloaders. They won't cycle but they don't jam much either with Super Colibri. Just pay attentioin to having them sit cleanly in the mag, give it a few rearward taps.

The worst malfunctioning I get is with subsonics in the Ruger autoloading pistols (Mk-II and 22-45). They don't cycle reliably. With the supressor on them I shoot regular "hi vel" .22 as well as CCI Blazers, MiniMags and the like and end up with subsonic results (Expecially with the Walther P-22 and its short barrel). I can shoot subsonics through the supressor and get good autoloading due to the increased "blow back" but why bother with "speacialty" ammo when the standard garden variety gives subsonic results.

Primer residue will build up shooting the Colibri so a patch run through the bore or firing a few standard rounds will help restore things.

Do let us know how things work out for you with the Super Colibri.

I still use Speer target ammo. If you haven't tried it, give it a whorl. You need some ventilation but it can be used safely indoors with a couple minimum safety precautions. With reasonable care it can be reused hundreds of times.

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[GaryM]

I have a box of the .38 Speer Target ammo. MyDad had it and gave it to me at Christmas. I guess it's the same as what you have. A red plastic case and black plastic projectiles? Press in a pistol primer and pop in a projectile and you're ready to go.

[Pat]

Gary, that is the stuff! A college friend and I used to fast draw on each other with it. We wore full face shield motorcycle helmets and a lab jacket over a coat. A little lipstick on the end of the projectile settled any questions of exactly where you were hit. I used my .44 mag super blackhawk and he used the .357 blackhawk that I sold him.

I know the question is, "if you are smart enough to be in college how come you are dumb enough to do this sort of thing?" We were in our 20's... 'nuff said?

You do need to swab the bore frequently to remove primer debris or you will not get consistent results. We used to set up ranges with multiple targets at different heights and distances with old quilts and blankets for back stops. After a while you can get so that you can pretty well hit where you look without using the sights. We found out real fast that fanning a six gun is futile if you want any accuracy. An important thing to remember is to aim at the "aim point" and judge accuracy by the closeness of the impact to the "normalized" bullet drop for that gun at that range.

I used the Speer rounds to train my wife to shoot a pistol without reference to the sights (front blade was removed from the Colt Army .38 we used.) She got to where she could put at least 5 out of 6 shots in a 6 inch circle at 15 feet. The drill was this... start with the weapon at your side, bring it to bear and fire then lower the weapon back to your side and repeat. Each round was a separate repetition. This is far more instructive than just changing the point of aim till you hit where you want like squirting water out of a hose at a crawling bug.

Of course after attaining this level, she could also point and empty the cylinder and get 5 or 6 in the 6 inch circle as well. I think most folks can attain this level with proper training procedure and practice. This is better than needed for successful self defense. You don't need enough light to see your sights, just enough to see the target as the weapon is not brought up to your line of sight. It is a training exercise to develop a motor skill. You do want to practice at varying ranges and some off axis shooting as well (off to the right or left of dead ahead of you as well as high and low.

It doesn't take all that long to do this with an average person with proper coaching and an honest effort on the part of the student.

Anyway, we had lots of fun with Speer target ammo. I have a new box for my wife's .357 Air light. 5 shot hammerless revolver that is just waiting for a break in our busy schedule.

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