Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 42

Thread: Horse Rustlers!

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    30

    Horse Rustlers!

    Well, we had some old timey horse rustlin' almost take place today at the barn my wife and I manage. My wife Jennifer has been dealing with a deadbeat border for the last three months, trying to get paid. Last month, she sent the woman, Joan, a letter giving her 30-days notice of eviction as required in the contract. The thirtieth day was yesterday, March 31. We hadn't seen or heard hide nor hair of Joan for all thirty days, but lo and behold the telephone rang at the eleventh hour and it was her. She simply wanted to come in and pay her back board and one-half month advance on the next month in cash, as if that would make us square! Jennifer told her that she was no longer interested in having her as a boarder and that she should come in the next day to have a chat.

    It should be said that Jennifer has fallen for this woman's fine Paint gelding, Doc, who she's been exercising since not only has the woman not paid her board or returned a single phone call, she hasn't been out to the barn once to groom or exercise Doc the whole time. Doc is a willing, good mover, and a handsome sucker to boot; he's got beautiful markings, is in good flesh and has one neat blue eye (cool, but also an indication of increased risk of cancer).

    So, being wily business folk, we set out to end up owning Doc outright by telling Joan we'd forgive the debt if she just signed the horse over to us. Jennifer printed up an official Bill of Sale and planned to present Joan with it in the morning.

    This morning Joan surprised Jennifer by showing up at the designated time. She told Jennifer that she would pay her the money she owed her in cash and then just give (not sell) Doc to a friend who could keep him at his own place. Jennifer started talking to her about the type of place he was going and started to genuinely get a little choked up, hoping he'd be treated right and be happy. Joan told her it was a fine place, getting a little choked up herself. Then, out came the guns.

    "You know," Jennifer said, wiping a tear away from her eye, "I'd be willing to forget everything if you sign him over to me."

    Now remember, the woman was just giving the horse to a friend. She wasn't going to sell him. So, Jennifer's offer would save her $1200.

    "Would you really do that?" the woman asked.

    "Sure I would. Doc's happy here. I like him."

    The woman paused for a moment, thinking about it, probably wondering how she was going to explain to her friend that she'd stabbed him in the back, and then said, "Alright, let's do it that way."

    So, Jennifer went into the office, got the Bill of Sale, had the woman sign it, signed it herself, and had an employee witness it. Jennifer and the woman talked a bit for a minute and the woman left. Done. We had gotten a very fine horse for $1200, a whole lotta headache and more disrespectful treatment than two good people should have to bear.

    A couple of hours later, Jennifer hopped into the car and drove out to the airport to visit with one of her sister's that had a three hour layover. Just after they finished having lunch at a restaurant in the airport, Jennifer's cellphone rang.

    It was Joan, calling to tell her that she'd changed her mind seein' how the friend that she was going to just give Doc to had told her that he was willing to pay $2500 for him and that they were already there at the barn with a trailer, but they didn't want to do anything without letting her know!

    Jennifer told her not to go anywhere before she got back, hugged her sister, ran out of the airport and hopped in the car. That's when she called me and told me the news. She wasn't sure what to think or what to do. She was worried about being a hard **** as the woman has been going through some emotional and family stuff. Maybe she should just take payment and let her remove the horse. She was worried about "karma."

    "Screw karma! That woman has been giving us the run around for months and now she's at the barn to steal that horse!" I hollered into the phone. "The horse will be gone by the time you get back and we'll never hear from Joan again. We won't even get paid what she owes us! We've already been burned for 350 bucks by one deadbeat and I don't want to get burned again. Call the police! Tell them to get over there, that there is a woman at the barn with a trailer who officially signed a horse over to us this morning as payment of her outstanding debt and who had now changed her mind and was about to steal our horse."

    She hung up with me and called the police, explaining the situation to the 911 operator. The operator told her that they would dispatch an officer.

    About ten minutes later, Jennifer's cellphone rang again. It was Joan.

    "Jen, did you call the police?"

    "Yes, I called the police!"

    "Why? You didn't have to do that. I told you we weren't going to do anything without telling you."

    "Joan, I don't know anything about you other than that you are at my barn with a trailer telling me that you are taking Doc. I had no choice but to call the police. I'll be there in ten minutes," Jennifer said and hung up the phone.

    Ten minutes later, Jennifer pulled around the corner of the drive. The first thing she saw was that Doc had been pulled out of the turnout and that he was grazing in the field on a lead rope being held by a stranger, near the truck and trailer. In addition, there were three patrol cars and cops milling around. Jennifer parked the car, got out and started to walk over to the group of cops. One of them broke away and took a step toward her.

    "What did you call us for? You should only call us if there is a problem!"

    "There is a problem!" Jennifer excalimed. "That woman is on my property with a horse trailer getting ready to take a horse that she legally signed over to me this morning! She owes me three months worth of board. I took possession of the horse as satisfaction of that debt. Now, she says she's changed her mind and is going to sell the horse to a friend! They already have the horse out of the turnout. Doc loads fine. Do you think they'd still be here if I hadn't called you?"

    The cop relaxed and said, "Alright, I guess there is a problem then."

    The cops took Jennifer's information and they took Joan's information. Then they told Joan to git, explaining that she'd legally signed the horse over to Jennifer and there was nothing that she could do about it. If the friend wanted the horse so bad, then if she was willing, Jennifer could sell the horse to the friend for $2500. Jennifer said she didn't want to make any decisions on the spot. She told Joan to call her later and that they could talk then.

    The horse rustlers slinked off into their truck and drove away, leaving Jennifer, the police and Doc behind.

    As the three police cars drove away, one of them pulled up alongside Jennifer and said, "You know, you should have a security gate installed across the drive there so that this can't happen again."

    "I probably should."

    "Anyway, I'm on patrol all night. I'll swing by five or six times to make sure she doesn't come back."

    "Thanks."

    "You bet," the policeman said and drove off, leaving Jennifer in possession of her new horse, Doc, nearly rustled.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
    Posts
    604

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

    Wow, Bob!!! What a story!! I hope Jennifer doesn't have any more trouble, but I gotta guess that she hasn't seen the last of Joan. I think that security gate is a good idea!!!
    Rich
    "What a long strange trip it's been."

  3. #3
    Guest

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Personally I think it's rotten what you did. It sounds like the woman was trying to be sincere. Alot of times people run on hard times or family problems. You shouldn't take advantage of that. It sounds to me like you had some material interest in this horse and the horse was worth more than $1200. In my opinion you guys were the ones who the horse thieves and not her.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    484

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I don't know, this is a tough one. The woman willingly sold the horse to satisfy the debt. You don't just 'change your mind' over a legal transaction, especially in an effort to simply sell the same item for more money. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

    Look at it this way. If you sold someone a used car, all signed and proper, and three hours later someone else came along and said, 'oh, I would have given you twice that'. Would you go to the person you sold the car to and try to repossess the car to resell it? I don't think so, Cowboy.

    I don't think it was an issue of taking advantage as much as it was becoming attached to an animal and wanting to ensure that he was properly taken care of. Animals, especially horses raise a lot of emotion. Family problems or not, the woman agreed to the arrangement and it sounds to me like she's all grown up and able to make such a decision. She didn't want the horse back because she loved it, she wanted it back for double the dollars. Anyway, that's what I got out of it.

    I also think calling the cops was good insurance, not necessarily required, but still better safe than sorry. If someone showed up at my house with a trailer saying they wanted something that legally belonged to me and that I knew they could easily take and disappear with, I would probably do the same thing. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

  5. #5

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I'll vote with Doc. Here we have a cooling off period of 48 hrs that you can legally rescind a contract if it has been made under duress or actually any reason for that matter. This lady was, in my opinion being taken by everybody including the friend that was going to take a horse worth 2500 bucks for free and not give her anything. Now that she's parted with it willingly or not she's probably better off anyway.She can always talk about the experience.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Schoharie, NY
    Posts
    30

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I was fairly certain that some folks would feel the way you do cowboydoc. It is a fair assessment of the story. However, regardless of how it may have come across in my story, what I care about most when dealing with people is honesty and giving people the benefit of the doubt and cutting folks slack when they need it. However, I also believe that there is a point at which a person has behaved so poorly that they get what's coming to them. Because I didn't want to attack the woman's character for no reason, I left out some details about her behavior and dealings that might make you feel differently about the situation. But, since my wife and I have now been accused of being rotten horse thieves, I think a defense is in order. Please note first of all that I freely admit that we got the horse for a song, but I do not believe that we took advantage of that woman, nor, certainly, do I think we stole from her.

    Regarding the transaction itself, Cindi made the exact argument I would make, so see the part of her post about the car sale. And rockinmywaypa, I appreciate the value of a cooling-off period surrounding contracts, but I would be very surprised to learn that after buying a car from a dealer he or she could show up at my house anytime between the moment of the sale and 48-hrs later to take it back because he or she had gotten a better offer.

    Cowboydoc raises the question of the woman's sincerity and that maybe she should be cut some slack since she had run on hard times and family problems. First, she's well-off, so there's no hard times. However, the question of sincerity and family problems needs to be addressed.

    Over the three months that she didn't pay us the board she owed us, my wife attempted numerous times to contact her via telephone and sent monthly invoices in the mail. In the beginning, it was easier to get her on the phone than at the end. At the end, she completey ignored, until the eleventh hour, an eviction notice [note here that she was given 30 days to get the horse out -- she could have sold him at any point during that time] and wouldn't return or take any of my wife's calls.

    You want to know the story Joan told us in the beginning? She told my wife on the telephone that the reason that she hadn't paid or been around was that her daughter had become seriously ill and had been hospitalized. They didn't know what was wrong with her and were continuing to do tests. My wife told her how sorry she was and just to pay up when she could. Imagine my wife's surprise when she mentioned to the mother of one of Joan's daughter's friends (who rides at our barn) how sorry she felt that Joan's daughter was sick.

    The woman looked at her and said, "sick? What do you mean sick?"

    "Joan told me that she was sick. That she had to be hospitalized. That there was something seriously wrong with her," Jennifer said.

    "Joan's daughter isn't sick," the woman said incredulously. "She was over at my house last night visiting with my daughter."

    A woman that is callous enough to lie about the health of her daughter makes you wonder what else she'd lie about. What about the other "family problems" she complained about?

    I imagine I could stop right there and be done with any questions about Joan's "sincerity," but I don't like being called a rotten horse thief, so I'll continue.

    Jennifer isn't the only person Joan owes money to. Another boarder at our barn trailered Doc in for Joan when she first arrived. As she didn't know Joan from Eve, she charged her $45. The woman, after sending letters and making telephone calls, finally got paid by Jennifer the day Jennifer bought Doc from Joan. Then there is the farrier. Joan owed the farrier $170. Jennifer already paid him for the one shoeing he did on Doc since Jennifer started exercising him. Jennifer plans on paying the other $170 to the farrier when he makes his scheduled visit tomorrow. Does she have to? No. Joan owes the farrier, not Jennifer. But, Doc's feet are in good shape because the farrier shod him. So, she's paying him. Now the vet. When it was getting time to do vaccinations, Joan didn't return Jennifer's calls. So, Jennifer had him vaccinated and paid the vet herself.

    At this point we have a woman who blatantly lied about her daughter's health (putting her sick in the hospital!) to get a person to whom she owed money off her back and who had not paid a single person who had had any kind of financial dealing with her from the minute she arrived at our barn. This is not to mention the multiple times that Jennifer had her on the phone only to be told, "Oh Jen, I'm sorry, I'm on the other line, I'll have to call you right back" or "Jen, I'm sorry, I'm running out to a meeting, I'll have to call you back. Did she call back? Nope.

    But, this is only half about her character as it relates to humans. What about the horse? Quite simply, she abandoned him, for three months, not once even calling to inquire after him.

    Cowboydoc, I know from your profile that you live in Iowa and Idaho. These strike me as two places where horses are likely to live on properties that have pasture adequate for exercise. Well, I live five miles outside of downtown Philadelphia, PA. We have 26 horses sharing an acre (maybe one and a half) of turnout. A little bucking and romping, ten or fifteen strides at the canter. That's all the room they have. In city stables, owners that care about their animals come out every day and either ride them on the trails in the park, in the outdoor arena, or hand walk them around the barn for thirty minutes. Not to mention groom them.

    For three months, Joan didn't come out once. So, about a month and a half ago, after hemming and hawing about whether or not it was appropriate to exercise an owner's horse without permission, Jennifer started doing so. For a month and a half she groomed him and rode him as his owner should have been doing. In so doing, she fell for him. Does she have a material interest in him? Maybe she'll sell him someday, but not anytime soon.

    So now we're at the day of the sale. Jennifer told Joan she could sell Doc to her for the amount she owed us. They talked about how much Joan had paid for him a couple of years before ($7000 -- remember the daughter -- we [Jennifer and the farrier] imagine he could bring $4000) and that she owed Jennifer significantly less. Jennifer told her that it was up to her, that she wasn't budging on the price. In the end, Joan decided to stiff the friend to save herself $1200 and sold the horse to Jennifer. Joan was so relieved to be done with and Jennifer was so happy to be done with it and have Doc that they actually hugged. Then she left.

    Then she found out that she could have gotten $2500 from the friend. The rest is history.

    If you still think we're rotten horse thieves, that's your prerogative. We were dealing with a lying snake that was given an offer that she freely took. I myself have no qualms about how we behaved and the way things ended up. Doc now has an owner that will care for and love him and Joan is out of the horse world, a place she never should have been.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    362

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Here's my take on all this.....
    Joan had an offer presented to her and she had the option to decline it. Instead she essentially signed over all her ownership rights to Jennifer (although mundamanu
    I question your remark of being "wily business folk"). I think it would be wrong to come back a few hours later and try to negate the deal, just because you got a better offer later. The other party that offered the $2500 to Joan just wantedthe horse for free. Jennifer had a vested interest in the horse, boarding fees, vet bills, farrier, grooming.......etc. and made an offer equitable for both of them, of course Doc benefited the most out of this arrangement [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] . Joan accepted it......end of discussion.
    I once sold a car to a woman who needed it for her son. She claimed to be too ill to come see it for herself (even though she went to Bingo 3 nights a week). She wrote me a check for the full amount based on what I feel was an honest description of the car. She even talked to others that knew me and the car. I took it to her repair shop of choice to have brakes put on it. Then I found out she stopped payment on the check 6 days later. Yes it cleared my bank and hers but they did it anyway. In return I had checks bounce for bills I paid. I sued her in small claims court and won. that was in 1983. So far I have collected $87.00 [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    My opinion is, this was a square deal. Sorry cowboydoc, I can't agree with you on this one.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
    Posts
    604

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I'm with Cindi and the inspector on this one, too. In fact I was even before Bob's further explanation. In my mind the well being of the horse is the important thing. He may be property, but he's also a living and feeling being. Joan neglected Doc, pure and simple. Jennifer had his best interest in mind, and they made a deal. Once you make a deal, even if you find out you could have made a better one, it's just too late.

    I for one, am gald that Jennifer has Doc, and I'm sure Doc is too. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
    Rich
    "What a long strange trip it's been."

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    In the city now.
    Posts
    656

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I was on the fence with this one, until I heard (as Paul Harvey would say) the rest of the story. I, too, once sold a car to someone. They called an hour later; the vehicle was dead on the side of the road. I returned their money & took back the car, only to find out they had run it out of gas.

    I guess it comes down to putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

    But get that gate installed, because there are a lot a crazy people in the world, and Joan might be back (not necessarily for the horse).

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    484

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    People aren't raised with any scruples anymore. When I was growing up, a deal was a deal. A bad deal was a lesson. You learned from it and didn't make the same mistake twice. You didn't cast blame all over the place and make excuses for why you screwed up or who was responsible for making you screw up. You just bit the bullet and dealt with it. Funny, even now I still make bad decisions and regret them, and I still blame myself.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •