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Thread: Horse Rustlers!

  1. #21
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    "The notion that we didn't pay "fair value" for the horse is bothering me. One can guess a "fair market value" for something "

    If you run a horse stable I hope you are something of an expert in the field. You know what that horse is worth. If the lady had come back weeks later or months sure I could understand a deal is a deal. But in this case she phoned you back two hours later. Obviously the horse was worth at least $2500. Also you accuse her of horse stealing and I don't see anywhere in your story where this was a case of old time horse stealing. She called your wife on the phone. It was only a couple hours after the sale and not days, weeks, etc. She said she would wait for your wife to get back. If she hadn't called, hadn't waited, then yes. But that wasn't the case. In your wife's own words,

    "She wasn't sure what to think or what to do. She was worried about being a hard **** as the woman has been going through some emotional and family stuff. Maybe she should just take payment and let her remove the horse. She was worried about "karma."

    You can say what you want but you don't know for sure what was going on. Maybe her daughter was in the hospital and had gotten out. Dealing with family illness everyday people often keep these things private and try and go on with their lives. People are often in the hospital for a day or less to do specialized tests. I have a little girl right now that is six years old and has been in and out of the hospital over the last two months. She has gone on with her regular life though. Saturday she was even at a birthday party that my six year old went to. So you don't know for sure whether that was or wasn't a lie.

    You also say that this lady is well off. How do you know that? Just going again from rumors? You don't know her situation for sure.


    "By the way, while we may not have accepted a $600 "plain old sorrel" as satisfaction of a $1200 debt,"

    So as long as you come out on the upside of the deal then that is ok. You sure aren't going to be on the downside of this deal, but if you can get a $4000 horse for $1200 then there is nothing wrong with that. You say she would have had to give you $600 to make the deal right. Yet you say that you shouldn't have to give her extra to make the deal right? So she gets on the short end of the stick by at least $1300 and that's just that. You had a personal interest in this horse and wanted him cheap. I mean let's at least call a spade a spade.

    And one more thing to Cindy. In the case of vehicle reposession, mortgage foreclosure, etc. the assets are seized and they are sold at auction. A bank cannot make a deal like was made with this horse. When property is seized it must go through a public auction. The auction determines the fair market value. The proceeds from that auction are then dispersed. The bank is paid first and then the debit or credit from that sale is applied back to the persons account. If the item brought more than what the debt was then the person is given the difference back. The bank doesn't just get to keep the entire amount.

    I like a deal just as much as the next person but I don't like getting them this way. I realize this kind of thing goes on all the time, everyday, especially with horses. Personally I think it was wrong. You think it was right. You certainly did everything according to the law. That's when it come down to what you are comfortable with. Obviously you are comfortable with your decision. I just stated my opinion on the situation. My opinion on things are usually in the minority so don't worry about what I say as I'm sure you are not.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
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    Sep 2002
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    cOWBOYDOC, I guess I'm too wishy washy 'cause I can be sympathetic to your point of view too. There is enough blame to go around and I have to agree with an earlier statement of yours regarding situational ethics. What is right is right as a separate issue of whatever "harm/frustration" the sleazy owner may have wrought.

    A court and judge get to punish. A cup of coffee should be the same price for a sleaze as a saint.

    Pat
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  3. #23
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Thanks Doc for speaking out. When I first read this post my thought was "Who is the rustler here?"

  4. #24
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    Mar 2004
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    Schoharie, NY
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Cowboydoc,

    At this point, I have exhausted my argument and am just going to agree to disagree with you.

    You are, however, incorrect in your assumption that I do not worry about what you say. I told someone in an e-mail just last night that I would be lying if I said that what you have been saying didn't give me pause. It did. But after pausing and thinking about it, I am still comfortable with it. Further, I view your posts as those of someone with a perfectly reasonable, if opposite to my own, take on the situation. I don't think your criticism stands up to the case, but that doesn't mean that I am going to plant my foot in the ground and say "I'm right and you're wrong, end of story." What I will say is that I can see some of the points that you're making (and some of them I can't), but that when I look at the whole thing, I see what we did as reasonable and not at all unjust.

    I sincerely hope that everything turns out ok with your daughter, and I wish you the best of luck in all things.

    --Bob




  5. #25
    Guest

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    I sincerely hope that everything turns out ok with your daughter, and I wish you the best of luck in all things

    Whoops I need to make sure you know it wasn't my daughter that has been in and out of the hospital. The little girl I was referring to is a patient. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. Thank the Lord above both of my girls always have been perfectly healthy.

  6. #26
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Reading it again knowing it isn't your daughter, it's clear that it isn't your daughter. I'm happy to hear that your daughters are and have always been healthy.

  7. #27
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Dag gum it,
    Ya'll made me open 2 windows just to read the posts and respond [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    mundamanu,
    the antique table situation doesn't hold water here in my mind. The OWNER made the offer not the "RECIPIENT".
    Val was bought at an auction. The owners know that any price settled on is what you get.

    cowboydoc,
    I don't care if it's 10 minutes after the deal. If you bought a used truck/car/tractor/whatever......would you expect the seller to give you your money back if you had reservations?
    And I figured it was a patient you were referring to.......thank God.

    Ok.........I've had my say [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    And cowboydoc knows that when I say I'm done, I'm done [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  8. #28
    Guest

    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    If you bought a used truck/car/tractor/whatever......would you expect the seller to give you your money back if you had reservations?


    Well actually most of the people I do business with they sure do Inspector. And that's why I deal with them. And yes I sure do know when you say you're done, you're done!! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I am too. It was just my opinion on the matter.

  9. #29
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Property of irresponsible people is sold everyday at less than it's value. Note...mortgage foreclosures, property seizure for failure to pay property taxes, and vehicle repossessions.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    All of those items (at least in this state), require a court order. They also all go to auction. (When the bank takes your house, they don't intend to keep it, they intend to sell it to recoup the money owed.) There were neither in this case and either would have made it much simpler to sort out. This instance is more akin to saying that you don't like the way your neighbor keeps his lawn, so that entitles you to do anything you want to him.

    Again, Joan's responsibility or lack thereof does not entitle anyone to the right to buy her property at 1/3rd value, at least without a court order (and then I think it's more like 10 cents on the dollar). The value was ascertained in this instance by the buyer (a wily businessman), the farrier (also pretty sharp) and Joan herself (possible loony). The fact that Joan was apprised of the animal's value prior to sale is the only thing that is swaying me in favor of a deal is a deal.


    This would appear to be one of those grey areas where the difference between right and wrong is about as thick as a hair.

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    if she'd not lucid enough to make these decisions then she shouldn't be wandering around loose.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Problem is that contracts made with the mentally incompetent are not valid.

    Steve


  10. #30
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    Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
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    Re: Horse Rustlers!

    Hey guys, ya know, in this case I think the primary reason for Jennifer's aquisition of Doc, was to save him from another neglectful situation. So, no matter how much money changed hands, I think she did well by Doc, and she deserves congratulations!!! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    Rich
    "What a long strange trip it's been."

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