</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I have one guy I talked to that will lease me 10 acres of his pasture
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Is this 10 acres fenced? You're not planning on "sharing" the land with the cattle, are you?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I have one guy I talked to that will lease me 10 acres of his pasture
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Is this 10 acres fenced? You're not planning on "sharing" the land with the cattle, are you?
No.... [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
He has a back section with a gate I can close and lock up...
Otherwise I think the cows would see my trees and think SNACK!! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Have you had experience with a venture of this magnitude? How long will your lease be with the rancher? Will either party be able to get out of the lease, within a certain period of time? Will the lease payment be based on your gross return (i.e. when the money starts coming in)? Do you have a plan to control theft (I see similar nursery farms with extensive security fence and alarms, as these potted trees are valuable and easily get 'legs' at night)?
I wish you luck, as I like to see adventuresome people, and a good business is healthy for our economy. I also think your wife may have good reason to be nervous at this point. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
The owner (old family friend) said I could have a 10 year lease and I could cancel my end any time with 60 days notice.
He would give me the right to buy those acres at the end of the lease as long as I keep up my end. Plus I would have first right to buy if he wanted to sell, (Set price of $30,000) including the well on "my" property A new owner would have to sink his own well.
It is pretty secluded... I talked to a security guy, and he told me about these deer feeder cams that work at night and one model that will page you with any activity ...
My lease payment will be due first of every year...($100.00 per years, small expense) and well expenses would be due monthly. He said he would pay the well expenses for the first this year to help me get started...
He is independantly wealthy and ony raises cows as a hobby and to get out of the house once in a while...
The money is not as big of a deal to him as just trying to help someone else to get started...
I have been looking at tree shovels and spades that go on a tractor or a Bobcat (skid steer)... attached
Has anyone ever used one like this?
Or a regular tree spade?
<font color="blue">Otherwise I think the cows would see my trees and think SNACK!! </font color>
Yep! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
One other thing to worry about is that even if you can keep the cattle out, you will have a hard time with the deer who may be interested in your plantings. Not sure what trees are palatible to those critters, but do know that they just about destroyed a friends peach and apple orchard when he first planted his trees (small). He had to resort to high fence to keep them away. Might want to talk to a TPWD biologist to see what they think of the trees you're going to be planting and if you will have any trouble with deer.
First Good Luck, I am 1 year into starting a tree farm. I dabbled for a couple of years before I went in. I still work full time though. I live in your area just south of Sherman. I do like it. There were a couple of things I learned on the fly I will try to give you what little I learned.
I grow Oaks (Live, red, ect....) & red cedars, & Leyland Cyprus trees. Go talk to the people you are selling the trees to or going to & ask if you can buy his old containers this will save MAJOR $$$$$. If they will not then start calling nurseries. Just make sure you clean them out before you use them.
Next make sure you get into drip irrigation. This is some money up front but will save a lot over time. Time is needed to get the drip system going. When you make the individual lines to each tree make sure you make them longer than you need so when that tree needs to move and another moved in you will not have to redo the line.
The nice thing about a drip line is that you can get an inline fertilizer. Just turn it on/off major time saver here.
Next thing is to consider weeds in the pots and around them. I created an area with the greenhouse landscape fabric (had to order it form a greenhouse supplier) and put Pea gravel on top of it to help protect it more from rips. Weeds are a big waist of time. Put mulch in the pots to keep them away.
You can get free mulch if you buy a chipper (cheap old one) and ask some people in your area with a lot of trees that you want to clean up some dead brush in your area. Do this only if you know the tree did not die from a disease. Or get it delivered in bulk from a sand/gravel place.
Soil you use – this is a heated topic – everyone will give you there advice of what to use, but I will say you get what you pay for (usually) But some testing I did I do have good luck with half sandy loam & half compost (finished compost). But will I go to it???? Research this!!!
Labor – this is a big one – like someone said – repotting is a lengthy process, as I only have night’s weekends for now (hopefully).
Go ask someone if you do not know how to prune the trees you are growing. My wife learned & taught me, as a bad looking tree will be planted at your land and not sold!!
Find a good cheap supplier of bamboo for stacking, or grow yours. In doing this invest in a good tree ribbon tier, as this will save you time. If you need help finding one I can find one online & send a link.
Hope this helps as I am learning also. I will help if I can.
My background is a Professional Tree Buyer for 8 years now, a BS in horticulture and a passion for trees. I have a few comments.....
First a Container grown tree is inferior to a B&B tree in 9 out of 10 cases given both are a top quality outfit. However there is a place for the container tree farms.
First being in Texas you are slightly out of my market. I buy typically from the Carolina's, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, TN. I do get stuff from Texas, but not as often as my Tree buddies (growers) send things that way.
The tree market has been pretty cut throat for the last three years on this side of the country a drop in almost 65% of the market value on many trees. The container prices you listed are fairly reasonable to within the limits of what I would spend.
A few things that I have seen. Mobile home stakes. Not sure what the are used for on mobile homes, but I know a container grower that uses them to keep his trees in the big cans from blowing over.
Drip Irrigation is good, but if a head clogs and you dont catch it kiss that tree goodbye. Probably a good option for a startup farm, but you may want to keep in mind a sprinkler irrigation system that has a 100% run off capture rate into a retention pond. Wight's Monrovia in lower Georgia has industry leading retention pond that cleans the nitrates and other chemicals from the water so that it can be returned back to the enviroment when the rain brings to much water. Very interesting. Since they have done it in conjunction with the EPA and Government I am sure they would talk to you about it. If interested I can find you a contact.
I have seen people use a rubber mulch on the top of the pot for weeds. That way you pull it before you ship and slap it on the next tree.
Most of the time growers are friends in these parts. I am sure you will find some that are willing to give some advice. Join ANLA and attend a local trade show. Wow the things you will find and see your first time to a major Nursery Trade Show. Also you may want to consider buying American Standards for Nursery Stock ANSI Z60.1-1996. While it is not an answer all type book, it does provide some basic technical data that some particular buyers will hold as a minimum.
The biggest thing I can stress, is product diversity. I have seen many farms struggle, and while many of your more diverse product may not sell as fast it helps some buyers fill out an order. (example: Quite often I am buying 6 Chioanthus. I cant ship just six trees. So I will look for a grower that has my Chioanthus and then I order the 50 Acer, or 50 Quercus that I may need plus the Chioanthus to make a truck for shipping.)
In addition the cycles come and go. What is hot right now, will 80% of the time be not in 2 years, and what is a glutton right now is gone soon thereafter. Two Years ago I was buying 100 River Birch at a time 24' in height for $80.00. Right now they are few and far between. Dont get on the backside of this curve. If you are reacting to a market trend typically you are to late. Becuase as you know a tree doesnt grow in 6 or nine months.
Most importantly good luck,
Have fun with the Hard Work!
<font color="blue"> Also you may want to consider buying American Standards for Nursery Stock ANSI Z60.1-1996. </font color>
You can get the 2004 version online for free in PDF.
ANLA Standard Z60.1-2004
meledward23: Do you have any opinions on trees grown with RootMaker products? In particular the knit fabric bags in the field.
B&B trees lose so much of their root structure when dug out of the ground, where-as the rootbags retain a very high percentage of the roots, and have nearly 100% success when transplanting.
<font color="blue"> Two Years ago I was buying 100 River Birch at a time 24' in height for $80.00. </font color>
I would think that would be a tree of more than 4" caliper. $80? That can't be the norm for a typical 4" caliper tree. Was it that low in price because of the glutton of supply? Wouldn't a Quercus of 4" have a wholesale price over $200?
<font color="blue"> Most of the time growers are friends in these parts. </font color>
Your profile is blank, so I'm not sure what "these parts" mean.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
I'll email you some price info.
As far as the River Birch, exactly $80 is probably about the cost to have dug the tree and load it. There were so many trees on the Market that growers were just trying to cover the cost of moving the trees off their property instead of dozing them. Now, I have a hard time finding that tree and it's price is skyrocketing.
RootMaker bags. Unless there have been improvements in them, we had very bad experiences with them 10-12 years ago. Personally I would look at a pot in pot system if you want to do in ground but removable system.
Trees dug B&B loose part of their root system. It is a good pruning for them in most cases. I buy from one grower that prune the roots of his B&B trees two or three times during it's growing on his farm. Even my most inept foreman has a hard time killing one of these trees.
In short I would say the following without writing a thesis:
B&B is better for the long term health of a tree, for a better survival rate when done correctly.
Containers are cheaper, easier to install, and make the quick buck easier.
Both are very viable and neither market should be completely neglected.
As a simple example Between yesterday and today I have had 97 trees delivered. 47 were Container grown.
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