Electrical question for Inspector 507, and others.

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Dear Gary-from-Warrenton: CJDave has read through this list of posts, and has observed so very many good ideas and suggestions. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It is therefore with a great deal of respect and admiration for the other posters that I add my personal view as to what you should do. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] What you have heah, Gary, is a HUGE opportunity to do good. Yes, you can do good and you will reap the benefits of that good in the coming years that you spend walking around on this mud ball. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] FIRST let me say that there is hardly anything as handy as a "contractor panel"; that is to say an 8-circuit breaker panel mounted to a piece of heavy plywood and fed with twenty feet of #8/4 cable. The breaker box is surrounded by outlets of various sizes and types such that there is nothing that it cannot service, be it a motor home, a 220v welder, or a jig saw. This panel can hang on the wall on a hook, can flop on the floor, can be dragged out into the driveway, or can be rolled up and hidden away. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] What you need is a cord cap to fit the 50A receptacle and the cord and a nice strain relief, and a panel and some wood. Then choose the outlets: 120v 20A GFI; 230V 20 Amp, 230V 30 AMP, 120v 30 AMP, 120V 50 Amp.....the list goes on and on. Array the outlets periferally on the same board as the panel. You'll LOVE this setup, and best of all, if you MOVE, you take it with you. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I first saw this in a fancy hotel in San Francisco where I was doing an infrared inspection. They have to be ready for ANYTHING in their big conference rooms so they have these four-pole 50A outlets around the room and oodles of portable panels for the Threado Sewing Machine convention to use or for the Blitzo Company trade show booth....you name it, eventually they'll need it. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] It used to be a huge problem when the chick from marketing rushed down to engineering and told them that she needed thirty, 20-AMP outlets for the upcoming Xerox company convention or some such thing. Cute as she was, they had to inform her that it was not a possibility; UNTIL, that is, they came up with the portable panel idea. Now everyone is smiling and the cutie from marketing is welcomed into the engineering dept like a long lost cousin. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I copied their idea when we were in temporary rental quarters and I needed to run my welder. I have since used the panel for two different house remodel jobs, and now it hangs in my half-built shop as a temporary panel for THAT job. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

CJDave,

Thanks for idea. As usual I've not been able to get started on this project yet. Busy planting some bushes and filling in some low spots. Have 3-4 Yds of topsoil being delivered tomorrow.

Not sure if the portable panel is code approved, and wouldn't want to do something that would cause issues wiht the insureance company if something were to happen. Perhaps Inspector 507 could advise on that.

I do like the idea of various configurations available. Just don't try to use everything at once. Same as with any other circuit. Can't draw 15A from all the receptacles on the same breaker.

[Inspector507]

I think it's best if I reserve comments on that Gary [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] If you use the four-wire cord, that panel is no different than any other appliance, be it a dryer or that new stick welder that you always wanted. Three-wire.....no way; four wire...oh kay. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I recently saw a motor home pedestal setup that some friends of ours paid HUGE amounts of cash to have an electrician install alongside their garage so they could use their HUGE motor home as a guest house when they had big gatherings. It was a four-wire 50A plug and the cord that came out of that motor home was about an inch and a quarter in diameter....probably 3-#8 and a #6 ground or maybe even bigger. Now THAT buddy, is an appliance...!! [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

My good friend with the RV has a box of some kind that he uses if he's in a park with only 30A drops. He plugs into two 30A receptacles to feed his unit. Never seen the inside of the box so don't know what's in there.

I do need to check my panel in the basement to see what wire size they used for the 50A feed.

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I know what you are talking about gary...... I was at an auction sale not too long ago and bid on a bunch of heavy cords, one of which was a home made version of that box. It was a wye with two 30A plugs feeding into a 50A 230V four wire receptacle. That way they connect to both lines of the RV pedestal and take ALL the power.....heh heh heh..... Do you suppose that they UNPLUG the guy next door who arrived earlier and is asleep already [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] so they can have his plug-in..??? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

That explains why there's no hot water in the morning, right?

That would only work if the two 30A breakers were on different legs wouldn't it. Or doesn't it matter. Well now that I think about it it would work. 120V @ 30A on the red and white, and another 30A from the other plug on the black and white? Do the RV 50A cords use four prongs?

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Yes, they do use four wire plugs. Remember that the RV is considered an "appliance" for electrical supply purposes. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Just like the new clothes dryers now have the fourth wire.....it's ABOUT TIME!!!!.....on them. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] When those RV park pedestals are wired in, they always use two separate legs so that the neutral can carry the correct amount of current. If the (+) legs were the same the neutral would have to be much bigger. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I learned that from inspector 507 last spring.....or was it winter? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

Now I do remember you mentioning an RV being an appliance! So I guess the panel in the RV uses two hots and the load is split. If the park only has 30A service I guess they just get 15A per leg rather than 25A.

The dryer in our new house uses a 4 wire cord.

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] The pedestal in the RV park has two 120V plugs. Each plug is a 30A. Since each plug is a different leg of the supply wiring, by plugging his bootleg wye setup into both plugs, the RV guy gets 230V at 30A per leg, and also gets the next-door RV camper to see red when he finds out he's been unplugged during the night.[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]