Substitute teaching

[rozett]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The establishment of teaching schools and state certification has, by implication, led the parents of today believe that when it comes to their child's education, they are inferior to those that are formally trained, leading them to leave education to the professionals, when in fact the opposite has shown to be true.

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Yoblonda, I think you draw too narrow a definition for 'education'. The school system has the children for less than 50% of their waking hours. So more than 50% of the 'education' takes place outside of schools. By their education and certification, teachers are better equipped to further the childrens education in reading, writing, and 'rithmatic (and history, science, etc). But the other 'education' of the children in subjects like honesty, personal relations/interactions, values, work ethic, etc have the potential to be much more influenced by parents (and families) than the schools. But it is harder for parents &amp; families today. Often both parents work and then have limited time/energy after they get home.

My point is, that parents still have the major responsibility for much of their childrens education. I do not believe their is a great conspiracy to seperate parents from children. Many parents do that on their own. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

<font color="red">How depressing... I have no doubt that it is as told above in this thread but I still find it depressing </font color>

Unfortunately Pat it is worse than depressing. Some of the things they are doing and calling it teaching is frightening. My kids are home schooled now and it was the best decision we ever made. All they do in the school system is keep throwing more and more money after a failed system. In our state we spend $14,800 on each student in school. Private schools they spend $3500. It's no wonder our kids can't learn math in school! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Yoblonda, I think you draw too narrow a definition for 'education'. The school system has the children for less than 50% of their waking hours. </font color>

I'm not sure of your schools rozett but here our kids are in school at 8:00am. School is out at 3:30pm. By the time they ride the bus and get home it's between 4 and 5. When my girls were in public school they were up at 6am, did their chores, and on the bus by 7:30. We usually didn't see them again until 4:30 or 5:00. That's 9 or 10 hours.

I completely agree with Yolanda and think if anything her view is too narrow of what is going on in the schools. What she is saying is right on target with what has happened in our schools. I'm not sure about where you are.

<font color="red">By their education and certification, teachers are better equipped to further the childrens education in reading, writing, and 'rithmatic (and history, science, etc). </font color> Unfortunately with the way teaching is applied in todays classrooms I think most parents are way better equipped than most teachers to provide their childrens education.

<font color="red">My point is, that parents still have the major responsibility for much of their childrens education. I do not believe their is a great conspiracy to seperate parents from children. Many parents do that on their own. </font color>

You are right that some parents do separate themselves from their kids on their own. However with our interaction with the schools they try and do the same thing. We are not to question how the kids are being taught, we're not to question the purpose of what they're learning, textbooks are so slanted and many times completely misrepresent the truth. Don't get me wrong here I'm not blaming the teachers. It's the system. In our effort to conform and make everything the same, delete religion, make everything "socially" acceptable, no discipline, etc. the schools have created more of an environment of chaos rather than one of learning. It's easy to see why MO teachers only last three years.

[rozett]

We are all in agreement, that the public school system is a mess and failing miserably. I think there is too much emphasis on mainstreaming and special needs education, which drains tons of money. I think the system has 'dumbed down' the education to the least common denominator, so that nearly everyone can be 'successful' and pass school. This helps the kids on the low end and hurts everyone else. It leaves the abstract thinkers and gifted/talented students out in the cold. School boards think too much about politics and not enough about education. And organizations like the NEA don't care a **** about education, they are just another labor union, more interested in keeping their jobs.

That said, I do not believe that this mess has anything to do with a conspiracy to remove christianity from society. I think it does have a lot to do with the abdication by parents. Some of these kids in high school (where I sub every day) have horrible manners, are extremely disrespectful to others, and think mostly of themselves. Those are values and skills they learn at home from the time they are two or three years old. I also believe that, no matter what you tell them, it is mostly about the example you set for them. If they see that it's OK for you to cheat on taxes, to lie to others, and be prejudiced towards others, then you've taught them that that behavior is acceptable. In our family it's not acceptable!

We were fortunate as our two oldest daughters did well in high school and went off the college. But we pulled the youngest from public school after eigth grade and put her in a small private school. Now, all three have graduated from college and one with an MBA. But I feel that much of their success and work ethic was our involvement and the example we set.

<font color="blue">I think the system has 'dumbed down' the education to the least common denominator, so that nearly everyone can be 'successful' and pass school. This helps the kids on the low end and hurts everyone else. It leaves the abstract thinkers and gifted/talented students out in the cold. School boards think too much about politics and not enough about education. And organizations like the NEA don't care a **** about education, they are just another labor union, more interested in keeping their jobs.
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Exactly right Rozett.

<font color="blue"> I think it does have a lot to do with the abdication by parents. Some of these kids in high school (where I sub every day) have horrible manners, are extremely disrespectful to others, and think mostly of themselves. </font color>

I do agree with you that parents are somewhat responsible for this. I also believe and have seen and experienced that jr. high and high school are probably more to blame for bad behavior in kids than the parents in alot of cases. I know alot of the bad stuff I learned didn't come from home it came from school. To be cool and fit in you had to do alot of the bad stuff. At home I got it good if I tryed that crap. Same thing I see with alot of kids who are patients. I personally know their parents and their home life. The behavior I see when I'm at the school does not happen at their homes. It was also the final straw in determining to home school our girls. My oldest started all the popularity wars and everyday more time was spent on who liked who that day, who was no longer friends, lying to each other, gossiping, hurting feelings, making fun of others, etc than the school work. That stuff did not and has never gone on in our house. Since we started home schooling I have my daughter back again and not the "person" school was teaching her to be.

[Pat]

I'm not into conspiracy theories..B..U..T.. don't for a minute think there aren't widespread interlocking interest groups who frequently use the chaos surounding our educational systems as an opportunity to further their goals.

Removing religion and its trappings from ALL public life, school or otherwise, is a well recognized effort. Do you think there isn't a gay and lesbian agenda to promote choice of alternate lifestyles to school children? If you don't think those influences are becoming more prevalent in public schools (and certainly on TV, especially TV aimed at kids), then you aren't paying attention.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

Whoever controls the media outlets can bias the output by placing the required mindsets in control. It's very subtle, not noticable or challangeable but very effective.

Egon

<font color="green"> Do you think there isn't a gay and lesbian agenda to promote choice of alternate lifestyles to school children? If you don't think those influences are becoming more prevalent in public schools (and certainly on TV, especially TV aimed at kids), then you aren't paying attention.
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Not only the agenda Pat but they are teaching that it is ok and it is a personal choice. Another reason we took our kids out of public school but I wasn't going to open that can of worms. Now that you have I will agree 100% with you. It's an agenda that is in full force here.