My Logs, His Sawmill, what to expect.

[meledward23]

I am talking to someone about coming out to my place and sawing some lumber.

He will commit to sawing my trees at $60 per hour. I am not sure if that is a good rate. He can justify it fairly well. But that at this point is not my concern.

I have a few questions about what to expect. I have asked him similar questions , but I would like to hear two sides. So here they are.

I have a 48" log of oak. He says he would need to quarter it and then produce 1" 4/4. What is 4/4 ? Secondly is this a good thing ? Am I better off at a larger mill that wont quarter it ?

In general if I have him say the would do I just request thickness ?
What is the best way to have the wood cut ?
How rough or fine should I expect the wood ?

Example: I have Sweetgum, he said that it makes good trim, is this true ? If so, what would I end up with from a Mill guy if I requested a Sweetgum to turned into trim Wood.


I can hear several retorts so here are my predicted answers:

1) Depends on what you wnat to do with the wood. I have two uses, A) I am building a house next year (Jan-Finish). I will use wood everywhere. Trim, floors and ceilings, stairs. b) I and building some rough shelters for my tractor, mower, and other tools.

2) How much or what king of wood ? Well I have about 30 8' 24" diamer long logs that are a mix of sweetgum, poplar, oak, and hickory. I have a prize 48" diameter 9' Water Oak. I have a 48" Diamter 100' tall Red Oak that needs to drop (still standing). I probably have several 24-36" Hickory that are 30'+ tall that will come down. So I have a lot of wood.

3) I could take this stuff to a mill. I have a 24' flatbed and a tractor. I can left most of the stuff (3500lbs) that 9' 48" wont budge though.....

Thanks for ya'lls experience and knowledge.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum. I would suggest you check out the Forestry Forum too for additional answers.

4/4 lumber is 1" (four quarters of an inch) in thickness. If his mill cuts straight lines (board surfaces) then this lumber if sawn at 1 1/8" (usual for 4/4 rough), then after drying it should plane to a thickness of 3/4" finish size. Usually factory hardwood lumber uses 1/4's to talk about thickness. Factory softwood lumber used in the door and window business is also that way. Construction lumber including dimension lumber is the 2x, such as 2x6 and actually 1 1/2" by 5 1/2" in finished size.

If I were in your shoes (and not knowing much about the trials and tribulations of sawing logs) I would ask for and visit with some of his previous customers. They will give you an idea of what kind of a sawing job this fellow will do. Also, ask some of the local millwork places that may have either dried or remanufactured some of this sawyers lumber into products, such as what you want to make. Get a feeling from them if they would recommend this sawyer on your property. How long has he been in business, is a question I would have. Ask a county or state forester in your area if he can give a good report on this sawyer, and why.

If the reports are good, then I would rely on the decisions this sawyer makes to do you the best job. All sawyers will make some apparent mistakes, because his sawing task is an art of trying to predict the lumber quality that is hidden beneath that next saw cut. Experienced sawyers will make the best decisions the most times.

I wouldn't try to second-guess his decisions, as it will just cost time, which maybe is why he charges by the hour [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Sometimes the log owner gets so interested and excited about the opening of a log and seeing for the first time the grain and beauty of the wood, that it slows the sawing down. Or the logs are not ready to saw, and a lot of time is spent fiddling with getting the logs from wherever to the saw. (Consider if you would invest in the $30-50,000 of equipment to go somewhere to saw and have it sit idle).

But in short, learn about this sawyer, and then step back and let him do the job for you if he sounds like a keeper. Otherwise, find someone else. It will be no different in selecting a mill where you take the logs to the mill. You need to put a lot of trust in the sawyer to do the best job for you. Ask someone who knows his work.

[turnagerg]

Quarter-sawed lumber is generally much preferred for cabinetry and furniture-building because it is more stable after it dries. There is less bowing and cupping in the boards as it dries, and less movement after due to humidity changes. The downside is that you get less lumber from the log than with flat-sawing. If I had an ample supply of logs I would prefer quarter-sawing. The problem in my area is finding a sawyer who will take the trouble.

[Pat]

$60/hour sounds like a lot but consider that I paid $20/hour to an idiot that never showed up reliably, whose equipment I had to repair, and I did as much or more of the manual labor as well as supply the fuel. If your guy is good and also relatively productive it could be a real fair deal.

Quatersawing is way superior if you can spare a significantly higher percent of waste from the log. Flat sawing of really fine quality wood is hard to justify unless you absolutely must maximize the board feet from a log irrespective of the quality of the finished product.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[meledward23]

Thanks for your replies. In addition to your comments I have read much on the forestry forum. And I found this gentlemen to be quite educational.

I have not comissioned him as of yet. Although $60.00 seems to be a fairly high price ( which he will admit to when he breaks down the average per board foot) he is honest about it and has explained his preference for quality.

That is important, since his primary role is a professional woodmaker. HE builds custom furniture and cabinetry and purchased a sawmill to produce wood from trees that he gets for free.

I am actually taking a bid from him on the cabinetry for the house (custom buidling a house next year). I figure if he has both parts cutting it and building it, then he should take good care of the wood as he goes.

Well, it's not over yet, but the play must go on.

[beenthere]

Sounds like you have a winner. Just keep him working, and not talking, and well supplied with logs that he can saw. I suspect you will get your money's worth. If he isn't producing, then you should be able to 'cut him off' and send him home. Have an alternative plan then, but I suspect you won't need one.

Glad you are getting some answers from the Forestry Forum. It's a pretty knowledgable bunch there. There are explained reasons some prefer the '$ per hour' charge vs. the '$ per bd.ft' charge. The bottom line, is that they don't want to do the sawing for nothing. And if they are not careful, it can happen. Loving what they doesn't pay the bills on their investment in equipment, oil and fuel, insurance, and their time.

[Pat]

Congrats on embarking on the road to building a custom home. Welcome aboard (misery loves company.) It seems that a significant number of us here at CBN are doing or have done IT.

I'm two years into the process and remain homeful that we can move in late this year. (Oklahoma farmhouse thread.)

I was getting some local timber that I cut down sawn by a guy with a band mill (4 big cedar trees, aka juniper.) Super hassle so I bought an Alaskan mill and a big chainsaw. Next I will get a smaller unit that will fit my 16 inch chainsaw to do the initial edge cuts. I have the 4 logs stickered and drying in the barn. I hope to trim out the sun porch with the wood.

As regards your guy cutting your wood and doing your cabinets with your own wood... What about the 1-2 years of drying time? Is there a vacuum kiln in the process you didn't mention?

Maybe you could trade your wood for some already dried wood of equal value.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[meledward23]

Yeah, sending it off to a Kiln after it is cut.



Oh yes I anticipate the misery of building a home. The most painful part so far is getting it designed. Oh wait that is the only step so far...... [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

Being in a construction trade I just cant wait for everything else as I have seen and been there for other peoples frustration. Now its my turn. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

meledward23, Ahh, like the folk singer said to his audience, "For years I have suffered for my music, and now it is your turn!"

I can "feel your pain" although not nearly as sharply as you will. I designed the house we have been building at for just over 2 years. I got some beneficial oversight (sanity checking) by my general contractor but it is 99% my fault.

We just got our cabinets in the kitchen, master bath and hall bath. Now to get the granite guy out to template for counters. One plumbing vent leaked and all I got was double talk about the one size fits all flashing boot thingy not conforming to 12:12 pitch so we just used some silicone caulk. I'll be checking into this.

I measured the scaffold I set up yesterday to see how high it was and if I should worry about altitude sickness. It was 19 ft to the top above the slab. Have to paint up to the peak of the 12:12 ceiling at 30 ft above slab. Here is the problem... Spray wand is 18 inches long, I am 6 ft 2 in, the shortest scaffold section I have is 6 ft tall, and I don't like to work hunched over for a long time or reaching way above my head. If I add a section my feet will be 25 feet up and I'll have to hunker down nearly 2 ft (not happening). So... I need to find at least a 5 ft preferably a 10 ft wand to make this less of a challenge. I'm not as brave (stupid) as one of the insulaltors who was wearing stilts and walking around on the top of the scaffold with no toeboards or safety rails!

The beat goes on... and on and on and on.

Best to you in our efforts.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ScottAR]

Hi Pat.

I presume your using an airless type sprayer? I've seen extra long tip extenders in the 5-6 ft range at work. (the big blue box) As I remember, they're about $50-$60 dollars. HTH

Might also check somewhere local that carries Spraytech or Wagner. (same brand)