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Thread: Why can't I buy a 60/80 pressure tank.

  1. #1
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    Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank.

    I know it's a carry over from city life, but I hate the low water pressure we have. The pressure tank works at 30/50. I checked the bladder; it's fine. The pump delivers enough volume when the tank calls for it that the pressure shoots back up to 50 pounds in about 10 seconds. Since it delivers that kind of volume, why can't I find a pressure tank that would give me the higher water pressure I prefer?

    Is it a time honored tradition that the those things would burn up the pump?

  2. #2
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank.

    Don't you have an adjustable pressure switch, that you can re-set to the low-high pressure that you want? Mine is that way, and I go 40-60, or thereabouts.

  3. #3
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank.

    The tank has nothing to do with it is the switch. Home Depot Ace hardware, Sears all sell 40-60 switches that can be set higher if you desire. But 10 seconds is a fast fill. Either you have a small pressure tank or I suspect that it is water logged and does not have enough air in it. A 50 gallon bladder tank should take about 35 gallons to fill I can.t believe you are pumping even half of that in 10 seconds.

  4. #4
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank (long)

    Hi,
    I think I can help with your question. As mentioned, it's the pressure switch, not the tank, that determines your hi/lo pressure. These switches are typically factory set at 30/50.

    Why not 60/80? Well, like most things in life, there are trade-offs. In short, you'd have to get a much larger bladder tank (or be prepared to replace your pump every few years). Also, at 80 lbs cut-off, you'd risk damaging fixtures with flexible tubing and/or pumps (e.g., icemaker, dishwasher, clothes washer, toilets). Having said that, one can usually get away with 40/60, depending on the relative size of the tank vs. the pump discharge rate (based on your 10-second run-time, either your tank is bad or the installer didn't know what he was doing).

    The most common pressure switch has two spring-loaded adjustment screws (if not, you can buy one for under $20). One controls the cut-out pressure setting while the other controls the pressure differential. (NOTE: BE SURE TO KILL THE POWER BEFORE MAKING THESE ADJUSTMENTS!!!). There should be a diagram inside the lid that shows which screw is which. Leave the differential set at 20 psi. Even still, you need to check the pump run-time to make sure you aren't short-cycling the pump. Here's why: the tank's usable volume will actually be lower at 40/60 than at 30/50. This in turn decreases run-time, which will shorten the life of your pump.

    The installer is supposed to choose a bladder tank large enough to keep your pump on for at least two minutes as it fills from 30 psi to 50 psi (most folks consider one minute adequate for pumps less than 3/4 hp). Tank manufacturers provide charts to help the installer choose the correct tank. These charts are based on the tank's "usable capacity". In case you're curious, the general formula for usable capacity is:
    tank total volume * (1-((cut-in + 14.7)/(cut-out + 14.7)))

    But in order to calculate run-time, one must also know the pump discharge rate, which depends on the particular pump's performance curve vs. the depth of the water table (not the depth of the pump). With this information, run-time is simply the tank's usable volume (gal) at given pressure setting divided by the pump discharge rate (gpm).

    Even at 40/60, the pressure drop will still be obvious to most folks, especially during a shower (though not as bad as at 30/50 lbs). One thing I did in my previous home was to drill out the water restrictor in my shower head. I also tried a few several shower heads until I found one that seemed to work best.

    Theoretically, you could set your pressure switch at 50/65, but you'd need a larger tank to maintain the minimum run time, especially if you have a big pump.

    In my new home, I installed a variable speed pump designed to be short cycled (Emerald Elite by Myers). The electronic controller has a built-in differential of just 2 psi! I set the overall pressure at 57 psi so the cut-in is 55 psi. This is also known as a constant-pressure pump. It starts gradually, and builds up speed over a few seconds, until shut-off. Unless I'm irrigating, it never runs more than four or five seconds at a time and therefore doesn't achieve full speed. The EE is very pricey (over $1k?), but IMHO, worth the money. BTW, it shouldn't require a bladder tank (at least, in theory), but you have to have a small one to offset the lag in the system. Other than the price, the only disadvantage is that it has very low torque (naturally, due to slow-start design), so it's more susceptible being damaged by sediment. I was a beta-tester for this pump and burned out the first two until the distributor figured out that fine particles were being ingested, causing the pump to lock up. They installed a fine sediment filter and it's been operating perfectly ever since (4 years now).

    DB

  5. #5
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank (long)

    That was very helpful pressure information, from many aspects (especially the "disconnect the power" safety reminder). Thanks for taking the time.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank (long)

    There are pumps sold already set up with pressure switches etc expressly for "boosting" low water pressure. Even Harbor Freight sells them. Look at the on-line catalog.

    www.harborfreight.com

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  7. #7
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank (long)

    Thanks for all the suggestions. We got relief in a way one wouldn't expect.

    The whole house filter casing on our 3/4 inch line broke.
    Since I then needed to replace the filter, I looked into a larger filter that used a 1 inch line from the pressure tank to the filter. The guys at Home Depot assured me that 3/4 inch should be adequate, but it only required $2.00 worth of new pipe to put 1 inch to the filter.

    Coming out of the filter we step down to half inch, because I am not yet ready to re-plumb the whole house.

    Nevertheless, this one seemingly minor change "doubled" the perceived pressure at the shower head. Even with the tub and toilet running at the same time, we have plenty of pressure.

    Who'd a thunk it? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank (long)

    It is very unlikely indeed that the change from 3/4 to 1 inch for that short of a run was the answer. Much more likely is the new filter is not nearly so restrictive to the flow. The old filter was probably either plugged up with fine materials or possibly was just too fine and restrictive.

    Most importantly, for whatever reason, you get a good shower now!

    [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  9. #9
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank

    I'm familiar with the Simer booster pump you mentioned (Harbor Freight item #9670). It has an input limit switch at 45psi, so the bladder tank must be set to 20/40. This will yield a house-side pressure of approx. 60/80. It requires a 1" hook-up line and a check-valve. They're about $400 installed.

    Perhaps a less expensive option would be to add another bladder tank in series. This will increase the usable capacity allowing you to either increase pump run time or increase tank pressure (and/or reduce the differential).

    BTW, as a followup to my previous post, one should never set differential to more than 20psi (e.g., to increase pump run time) unless the tank is designed for that. This will fatigue the bladder and void the tank warranty.

    DB

  10. #10
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    Re: Why can\'t I buy a 60/80 pressure tank

    Which would work better?

    A super large pressure tank (or two in series)

    or one of those harbor freight "booster pumps"

    I really would like to have BIG water pressure in the new house. We currently have a point for a well, I have a large bladder tank.. but it's still minimal pressure.

    Thanks
    JP

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