Seal Boston Terrier

[AbbyRoze]

Thank You !!
I will !!

Abby [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Handyman]

I agree with Fred on this one and didn't think anyone one would respond to this obsurd request.

My Charlie is a Boston Rescue (owners were killed in a car wreck), but since rescueing him, I've become aware of BYB, puppymills and what happens to a lot of these dog that were an experiment of "WHAT IF I BREED THESE TWO TOGETHER"

I am partial to muscular or Bulldog types and know through research that they can develope more "ISSUES" with less effort than most other breeds. If someone disagrees with me.. just go to a Boston Terrier rescue and just look at all the ugly variation that has been abandon, a lot with health issues.

I'm even more disappointed that anyone from a vetenary office would even aid in any type of BYB [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Here is something I found posted on a breeders site...
Although I find most professional breeders full of themselves and think THEY are the ones that should be ALTERED and not the animals... [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Puppy Buyer's Guide:

1.

Attend a dog show. You can find upcoming dog shows in your area by going to InfoDog.com. Generally, about a week before the event, they will list the exact time and ring that Boston's (or the breed you are searching for) will be there. Go to the show and talk to some of the breeders. But please be courteous, and don't interrupt them as they're going into the ring. Most of them will love to talk to you about their wonderful breed, and many have or know of other good breeders who may have puppies available.
2.

If the breeder will only meet you in a store parking lot, you should wonder what they are trying to hide. You should ALWAYS be able to see the living conditions of both the puppies and the parents. The puppies and the mother (and their living/sleeping quarters) should be clean and dry, and appear completely healthy. Keep in mind that the mothers do appear somewhat lean at this time due to feeding of the puppies, but their coat should be shiny, and their eyes bright and attentive. The puppies should appear healthy, be clean, playful, and well socialized.
3.

Is the breeder USDA licensed? If they are, that is a red flag to you that this breeder is a puppymill. Class A licensing is required by USDA for any breeder who sells puppies to a broker or pet shop. Puppymills and BYB's do NOT check for genetic problems, nor do they care. They only want your $$. Puppymills will generally breed a bitch her very first season, and she will unfortunately wind up living in a 3x3 cage her whole life being bred every single heat after that until she is either dead or doesn't produce anymore litters. Check out the puppymill link on my home page for more details on them .
4.

You should be able to see both parents (at the very least, a picture...as some breeders do use outside males). Frequently, the puppies turn out very similar to the parents in size, temperament, and looks. Is that what you want?
5.

Check out the pedigree. Any reputable breeder has a pedigree on their dogs, at the minimum a 3 generation pedigree. Look for inbreeding. That is when a brother and sister have been bred together. Definitely a NO NO. Father and daughter is done also. It isn't "quite" as bad, but is still usually frowned on if done too frequently in the line. For line breeding it's okay as grandfather to granddaughter but really should not be any closer related. Also, just because a puppy has some Champions in his background does NOT mean the breeder is reputable, nor that the puppy is healthy.
6.
<font color="orange"> </font color>
Beware of breeders that advertise their puppies as registered with a dog registry other than AKC (American Kennel Club), CKC (Canadian Kennel Club), or UKC (United Kennel Club). Frequently they will advertise pups as CKC (Continental Kennel Club), and the unknowing buyer thinks they are getting a purebred dog. Chances are, you are not, but are paying a registered price. Almost any dog can be registered with the CKC (Continental Kennel Club), and there are numerous other registries popping up every day. AKC (American Kennel Club), CKC (Canadian Kennel Club), and UKC (United Kennel Club) require strict breeding records be kept, and while their system is not infallible (an unethical breeder can always find ways around a system), it works fairly well, and you can be rather certain that your puppy is purebred if not well bred.
7.

<font color="orange">A preponderance of white on the head and/or body (in Boston Terrier's) and/or blue eyes is NOT a RARE Boston. Neither is a red, brown, fawn, blue, gray, etc. RARE. Studies have shown that the same gene that causes deafness, is also associated with the excessive white and/or blue eyes. The "off" colors are not an acceptable color for the breed standard. They can still be registered with AKC, but because of the risk in producing these health/non-standard problems, they should NOT be bred. </font color> While these "off" colors do still make wonderful pets, and even a good breeder will have them show up occasionally in a litter, a breeder trying to sell you a Boston as RARE because of their color, markings, or eye color is NOT a breeder to be trusted! They simply want you to believe that their puppy is worth the exorbitant price they are asking for it.
8.

There is no such thing as "show markings" on a Boston. Don't fall for a breeder who advertises their dogs as show quality because of the markings. A Boston's markings are merely icing on the cake. If the dog is not structurally sound to begin with, no amount of markings are going to make him show-worthy. If you are looking for a Boston to show in conformation events, chances are you will not find it among a litter bred by breeder who does not show their dogs. You would be far better off locating a breeder who does show their dogs, and purchase a show quality puppy from them. If your interest is genuine, this same breeder will very likely become a willing mentor to teach you the in's and out's of the show ring, and assist you and your Boston in your quest to fame.
9.

If you checked the BTCA link above regarding the standard, you will have found that a Boston has a short muzzle. A breeder who advertises that their Boston's have longer noses so they don't have breathing problems is not being truthful. This is generally their way of justifying the breeding of their pet. Having a longer nose does NOT reduce breathing problems. Boston's are a Brachycephalic (short nose) breed, and hence they do snort and snore a lot. Stenotic nares and/or an elongated soft palate can be found in any breed, including Golden Retriever's. But a good breeder who is breeding to the standard does NOT produce a long nose Boston, nor do their short nose Boston's have breathing problems.
10.

Is this breeder willing to sell you a puppy on full registration? Why are they doing this? A reputable breeder does not sell a pet quality puppy like this. A good breeder calls a puppy pet quality for a reason. There is a flaw (albeit usually just a nominal one) that marks it as non-show quality. This same flaw in all likelihood should also mark it as non-BREEDING quality. If they are selling a pet quality puppy and are willing to let you (or any Tom, Dick, or Harry) breed this puppy at some time in the future, they are willingly contributing to the thousands of homeless dogs that are filling the shelters today. A good breeder will NOT sell a puppy as a "good breeding dog".
11.

How long have they been breeding? How many females does the breeder have? How many litters has this breeder had? How often is the female bred? If the female is 3 years old, and has had 6 litters, they are being over-bred (in my opinion!). If puppies always seem to be available you can bet it's become a lucrative business and the puppies are just merchandise. If checking the newspaper ads, browse over the other breeds and take note of phone numbers and/or addresses. Are there several repetitions?
12.

The breeder should also give you a WRITTEN guarantee on the puppy, NOT VERBAL. Any health problems should either be paid for by the breeder, or they will exchange the puppy... Preferably YOUR choice, not theirs! (Unfortunately, the choice guarantee is not always an option, but there are some breeders that will give this choice). Keep in mind that many genetic problems do not appear until the puppy is an adult of 1, 2, or even 3 years old. The guarantee should cover no less than a one year period for genetic defects. The puppy should also have ALL of his/her puppy shots, and been wormed. A health certificate is required by most states prior to selling a puppy, so don't be fooled into thinking it's a healthy puppy just because it has been given a health certificate. There are unethical veterinarians, just as there are unethical breeders.
13.

A good breeder will also have run the proper genetic tests that are available to ensure the breeding dogs are free from genetic defects, and thereby (hopefully) so are their puppies. A certificate is issued when the dog passes these tests, and the breeder should provide a copy of these certificates to you. The tests that are most common for Boston Terrier's is CERF (eyes), OFA (hips), BAER (hearing), and LP (luxating patella). Keep in mind that the majority of these tests are only valid for a one year period (BAER testing is once in a lifetime). Just because a female was tested 2 years ago for juvenile cataracts, does not mean she doesn't have them today. Check the date on the certificates. They should be no less than a year old. These genetic problems can cost thousands to correct, and unless you have some type of guarantee in writing, YOU pay the vet bill.
14.

Many breeders will make a sweeping statement regarding their dogs health. Their "vet says the dog is healthy", the "vet says they are wonderful Boston's", their "friend says they could be show dogs". These are all examples of excuses a backyard breeder makes to help justify the breeding of their pets without the proper genetic tests. Ninety nine times out of one hundred, the vet has no clue what a properly bred Boston should look like, nor does their friend. Most of the genetic tests cannot be performed by a regular veterinarian, so he cannot certify that the dogs do not have a genetic problem.
15.

Get references from the breeder. Most reputable breeders will have a list of several people who have purchased puppies from them. Call the references, and ask about the health of their puppy and satisfaction with the breeder.
16.

Why is the breeder breeding? Because they want to scatter Fido's good looks and charm around? Did they just want to educate their children? Do they state they only want to provide nice "pets" for their friends and family? Did they never bother to spay or neuter, and an "accident" happened? Or do they truly care about the Boston breed, are trying to better the breed, and are striving to breed for the PERFECT Boston.
17.

Find out who the breeder's veterinarian is, and CALL THEM. Most Vet's will tell you yes or no if the parents are generally healthy and if they're brought in for regular care. They also should have seen the puppies at least a couple times, and would know if the puppies are healthy. They are also another ideal contact on "who" has any puppies available.
18.

Do you feel comfortable with this breeder, or are you kept at arms length? Do you feel they are answering your questions honestly? Could you consider this person a friend you can call with a really DUMB question? We all have dumb questions now and then. Can you call them after the sale and expect answers to your questions? Is each litter special in some way? Will they help in training and grooming if you need it? Will they show you how to clip nails, brush out the coat properly, or make a correction to an uppity puppy if you need that kind of help? Are they willing to take the puppy back if at any time you are unable to keep it?
19.

I have noticed a recent trend towards breeder's releasing puppies to new homes before they are 8 weeks old. Some even at 5 weeks. This is a VERY important period for puppies. Puppies of that age are still learning to eat solid food, and are learning socialization from their mother and littermates. Many good breeders won't release them to new homes until they are at least 10 weeks, and quite often even longer. Use caution, as frequently, their desire for you to take the puppy earlier than 8 weeks is an indication that they are a puppymill, or at the very least a poor and uncaring breeder, and they need the room for the next batch of unfortunate puppies. I would really question a breeder who requires you to take a puppy prior to 8 weeks old. More and more states are initiating laws making it illegal to release a puppy prior to that age, and some are even making it illegal to purchase one that young. Check the laws in your state before removing a young puppy from its mother.
20.

Most reputable breeders will only sell a pet quality dog on a spay/neuter contract and/or a limited registration. A spay/neuter contract requires you to have the dog spayed/neutered by a certain date. Occasionally the breeder will ask for an additional fee that is refunded to you on proof of the spay/neuter. A limited registration means that the dog could potentially be bred, but any resulting litter is ineligible for AKC registration. Because of the increase in sub-standard registries, and the fact that the majority of them will register a dog whether it's purebred or not, the extra fee spay/neuter contract is becoming more popular than the limited registration. There are even some breeders that are requiring both the extra fee PLUS the limited registration simply to help ensure that their dogs are not bred indiscriminately.


[/ QUOTE ]

[AbbyRoze]

Well i am not going to sit here and go back and forth.

I do not run a puppy mill !!!!!!!!!!

they see both parents and they are welcome here anytime to look at their puppy or the parents, or their living conditions or their food or anything they want, i do not meet people in parking lots to sell pups, if i sell pups they come to my home, i have nothing to hide !!!!

My vet has been a vet for almost 35 years, and i trust him to tell me the truth about my pups and my dogs and so far he has been honest with me on all of it, when i get a card from him saying a dog is ready for a check up or shots or whatever i get them in there for it.

I care about my animals !!!!! their health comes first before anything else !!!!

I asked my vet about taking the seal/white and breeding it to my brindle/white, and he said he did not see anything wrong with that, i was not taking a different breed and breeding, they are same breed just different colors. My vet has pictures of my 2 litters of chihuahua's that i have had on his pet board in his office and this will be my BT's first litter and she will be 2 years old or older before i even think about it. My Chihuahua's the TWO i have are both over 3 years old, 1 male 1 female, most breeders have or will tell you to make any money you have to have 2 females or more and 1 male.

well i do not have that i have 1 female chihuahua and she has had 2 litters, and 1 male Chihuahua, i have 1 female BT and now have 1 male BT.and my vet has already checked him out and said he is very HEALTHY !!!! and very pretty color !!!

so i guess i am not a breeder, i am just a old lady who enjoys having her pets and once in awhile i have a litter and sale them.

My husband went to a shelter to see about getting a big dog, and he picked one out that he really liked, and he went to check on what he had to do to get this dog, and the first thing the lady told him was, TO GET THIS DOG IT IS $ 300.00,
she didn't say lets check it's health record since he has been here, or his temperment, or if we have any information of how it got here and how did it live before, or what reason it was here, just $ 300.00 !!!!!
to us that showed us that they were not really interested in giving the animal a happy safe home, to us the money was more inportant !!! we walked out of there and i would never return !!!!


i am breeding different colors, NOT 2 DIFFERENT BREEDS !!!!!

and as far as your comment about UGLY !!! to us there is not UGLY dogs !!! all dogs need love, should'nt matter what they look like !!!!


Abby

PS. I am so sorry i even posted a question on here i thought this was a friendly place, and everyone could ask questions, didn't know it was going to be called obsurd or have to defend yourself on here !! i thought all was entitled to ask questions !! !! (was my mistake) !!! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Don't let just one post upset you, Abby. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I doubt that even "professional" breeders and those who want only "show" dogs do everything included in Handyman's post. A one year guarantee? I never heard of such, but I certainly don't know much about breeding/raising/showing registered dogs, and I don't know what kind of selling price would include such.

However, I see some similarities between you and our youngest daughter. One of her best friends raises and sells AKC registered Maltese, and gave her a male pup that was injured at birth. He has a swiveled and useless right front leg, but that little 3-legged rascal doesn't know he's "handicapped"; full of energy and loves to play. Two vets have said there is no genetic problem. Later our daughter got an AKC registered female, so she and our grandson just have the two dogs; one pair.

That pair has produced 3 litters since she's had them, but as you said, the dogs are part of the family, their health is the first consideration, they see the vet regularly, get all their shots, etc. Of course, the pups have been sold, and sold for what I would consider to be astronomical prices (probably actually cheap). I know when she's placed an add on the Internet, the pups have always been sold in less than 48 hours. But our daughter requires any potential buyers to come to her house for a visit and interview, if they buy a pup, they sign an agreement to have the pup examined by their own vet within a certain time (10 days I believe), the pups have already had all their vaccinations and the buyer gets the name, address, and phone number of my daughter's vet (who has agreed to answer any questions the buyer may have), and the buyer gets a 30 day money back guarantee; everything in writing.

And I think that no matter what the ancestry is, sometimes things happen that are just not expected. Same thing happens with humans, doesn't it? I said my daughter's bitch has produced 3 "litters", and perhaps that wasn't quite right, because one of those "litters" only consisted of a single, male pup. That one pup was about 50% heavier at birth than would normally have been expected, but nothing else unusual, and my daughter sold him to a co-worker and his wife. They wanted a "small" dog and were familiar with the parents. Well, that pup has grown to a size equivalent to or exceeding the size and weight of his parents combined. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] The buyers would have preferred that he stay smaller, but of course, they've also grown to love him too much to even consider letting him go.

Our other daughter saw a sign on the roadside for "free pups" several years ago, and she stopped and got one. The mother was a cocker spaniel and the owner had no idea who or what the father was, so our daughter thought she'd have a dog about the size of a cocker spaniel when it was grown. In appearance and size, it's a blond Lab, and of course, it's part of the family in spite of not being what was expected. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Handyman]

Lady, if you think we are or have been rough on you, then by-god don't post this on any Boston Boards... You have't seen anything yet.

I used to think just like you until I opened my eyes and began to look at all the dogs that have been abandon, tossed aside and how many that were/are killed everyday that started out as the product of a "Hobby" breeder.

You stated here that you wanted another red to "BREED" ! This makes you a breeder, the kind of breeder you wish to discribe yourself is your choice. When a person breeds a dog with intent to produce offspring is a breeder.

In my previous post was merely to point out to you that "OFF COLORED" Bostons are often associated with other Health "ISSUES". however you choose to be offended because you want to produce more off colored puppies.

It is obvious you have not done your homework with breeding Bostons... A lot of bostons do NOT free welp. Are you prepared to pay for C-section ? Your vet sounds like he doesn't have any experience with Boston's, then again, its more business for him if you do breed.. right ? Hmmmmmmm
Strange thing, my Vet feels the opposite if the breed is is considered a non standard. He feels a loyalty to a specific breed and its standards.

I don't have an issue about breeding two healthy dogs that are within their standards, but to breed a "Designer" dog is not fair to the animal since it has been proven they have health issues. Dogs that have health issues are almost guaranteed a life of hell.

Obviously you have internet service... Do a little research first before you hook these two dogs up... You might save yourself a lot of headache and/or heartache.

Think about it... [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Fred]

Thanks for jumping in here Handyman and I'm impressed to see how knowledgeable and versed you've become since when you were first looking for a travelling buddy. It doesn't take much for people to develop a genuine interest in a breed's future or dogs in general and obviously breeding dogs for profit is a highly "political" subject.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am not breeding for the money, i am breeding because i enjoy it and love my dogs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Abby, nothing against you personally, but how does exposing your dogs to more health risks by keeping them unaltered and even breeding them show that you love them? You breed dogs because you love them [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Lets see... you breed Chihuahuas, you're looking to breed Boston's, you had a Pug spayed after you looked into the health risks of breeding, your husband has Danes. Let me guess, unaltered???
All of these breeds have been featured in Dog Fancy magazine within the last two years with Chi's and BTs within the last 6 months (without actually looking through my stack). Coincidence? Just thought I would mention this. I'm sure we can all draw are own conclusions.

The bottom line is, in the wild it is the strong that perpetuate the species. In domestic animals it is up to us to see that the health and correct traits are kept intact whether you are showing in conformation, the field or actually working the breed (hunting with a hunting dog, catching with a catch dog, herding with a herding breed...).
You are starting with pet quality dogs and probably not going to require a spay/neuter contract (please tell me I'm wrong). It sounds like the only health screening you plan to do is asking your vet if they seem healthy (no x-rays or screening). What direction do you see yourself having contributed to the breed once the great granddaughters and sons start contributing to the gene pool?

I honestly believe that many legitimate breeders try to cloud what they do in an air of mystery, but they all have the common denominator of trying to reach a goal and they are looking generations down the road. That goal is never to say, "Well, 'Ol Fifi sure produced a bunch of litters for us. Lots of pets with her blood in them out there."

In my opinion breeding should be regulated.

[Al_Wa]

<font color="blue"> </font color> I am so sorry i even posted a question on here i thought this was a friendly place.

Abby, it is a friendlly place and I am glad you made your post. Good luck with your endevor. The best dog I ever had was a lab/ setter cross.

[AbbyRoze]

Lady, if you think we are or have been rough on you, then by-god don't post this on any Boston Boards... You have't seen anything yet.


now what does this sound like ? A threat ?


well i guess i will just sell my BT's . the pug is spayed so i can keep her and the dane is spayed so we can keep her and will just sell the rest . Thank You both for making my mind up for me.

now that will make happy people. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

thanks for all your information and no reason for me to do any more research on dogs, because you TWO have done it all !!!!

am so glad that is over with now.

is it safe to say rabbits ? [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Abby [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[AbbyRoze]

Thanks for your suport from those who posted their suport, it is nice to hear [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

but i will never know now how it might of come out, these two have scared me so much i am giving up, it is not worth being called things and told how stupied i am, it just is not worth it anymore. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I thought i was doing the best for my dogs, but guess not, so i do not feel i can do the best for them now.

maybe i will research rabbits and see what happens, do they come in different colors ?? [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks,
Abby [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Al_Wa]

Abby, I'm not so sure you should give up. Seemed like an honest inspiration. Given the uncertainty of genetics even the best have mistakes. Seems like you are willing to accept the responsibility of your actions. Good luck, whatever you may decide.