Water softener, pressure tank, and pump in garage?

[cwarrix]

Hi, I live in a house where our well pump and pressure tank are located in a crawl space which is a pain to get to. In addition, the hot water tank and water softener are located in a laundry room which joins the wall to the garage (hope that made sense) [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

I would like to move everything to the garage, but I was concerned about condensation and cold weather. Does anyone have any input regarding this plan? I would put it all on the other side of the wall from where it is currently, so it shouldn't be too big of a job to reroute things. There are several reasons I am considering this ... to make more room in the laundry room, the floor in the laundry room needs to be replaced along with the sub-floor which would give me perfect access to the pump and pressure tank and plumbing, the hot water tank is almost 15 years old and is showing its age, and the pump and pressure tank are starting to show signs of failure. I figured I could fix it all in one shot and make my wife happy with a nice big laundry room.

I was thinking it may get too cold in the garage, but the pump and pressure tank are already in the crawl space, it can't be any warmer down there. I guess I could build an insulated, and moveable "box" around the whole works if necessary. Another thing I was not sure about was building codes. Also, I'll try to post some pictures of what it looks like now.

Any ideas welcome! Thanks in advance.

[Autotech]

One important issue springs directly to mind - gasoline vapors. To the best of my knowledge well pumps are not explosion proof, and if you park vehicles in the garage you will have fuel vapors present - whether you smell them or not.

Other than that consideration your other concerns are minor. Enclosing the units will hold heat in (be careful in warm weather) and if sweating of components becomes problematic drip pans can easilly be fabricated and installed as needed.

Gregg

[cwarrix]

Thanks Gregg, if I enclose it somehow, the vapors should not be as big of an issue right? I have a freezer and refrigerator in the garage right now with electric motors, I didn't even think about the vapors being a problem. Now you have me wondering if I should move them.

Also, I was thinking of using a big plastic or vinyl or sheet metal floor with a drian for leaks or sweating. Do you think an exhaust fan would help in the summer? I was going to make the enclosure easy to remove for maintenance, perhaps I can just remove it in the warmer months.

I forgot to mention before, the HW heater is electric, so no venting issues or open flames there.

Thanks again for your input.

[egon]

There are many garges housing cars that are heated by a small open flame gas heater with an electric circulating fan. These units are usually mounted near the ceiling.

Egon

[Autotech]

The problem with gasoline vapr is that it is heavier than air. In new construction it has become either common practice or in many locations building code requirement to have the floor slab in the garage a step down from the rest of the house. There are quite a number of newer townhouses in my area where the heater room which houses all of the utility equipment is located in a small room just off the garage. This room is always 6" to 12" above the garage floor, and separated from the garage by a weathertite door. In many cases this room is provided some outside ventilation, but not always. I have also noticed that the pad or floor of the garage usually has a noticeable grade away from the closet, towards the garage door(s).

Unfortunately these methods are only effective for very small concentrations of vapors, and also assume that the garage will be opened and closed on a twice daily basis, further ventilating the space.

I'm not going to commit to approving/disapproving your plans because of the potential dangers involved. Just keep in mind that gasoline vapors will tend to stay low on the floor, rising as the concentration increases. Ventilation and separation are important safety factors. Enclosed gasoline vapors are extremely dangerous since the nature of the materials involved tends to create a highly combustible product without any outside assistance - the concentration of fuel and air almost "automatically" finding the perfect ratio.

A vehicle with even a small fuel system leak (either liquid OR vapor) parked in an enclosed garage for a few hours will create a sufficient concentration of vapor that if an ignition source is provided the force of the explosion will level a moderate sized home.

I've always preferred detatched garages for this reason.


Gregg

[cwarrix]

Thanks Gregg, I may have to rethink things a little and explore other options.

BTW, our garage floor is about 24 inches or so below the house floor. I didn't realize they planned it that way, I just thought it was because of the crawl space under the house and not under the garage. What you said makes sense to me now.

I could build a raised floor for all of the equipment, but I'm not sure I have enough room to completely frame it in with 2x4 studs and drywall because it would be getting very close to the small door. I can't move the door because I have brick exterior ... Maybe I'll go look at some new builds to see get some ideas. Or maybe I'll just replace everything that needs replaced and not relocate anything [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Thanks again for your input, and I didn't mean to ask you to personally approve or disapprove the plan. I completely understand you cannot do something like that, especially sight unseen. I apreciate the help though, it has made me think about things I would not have thought about otherwise.

Chuck

[Pat]

Garage mounted gas water heaters are placed on pedestals to be above low lying fumes. Not perfect but better than the "old way."

Don't abandon your idea too easily. Why worry about the temp in the box in summer? The pump can take fairly high temps and being full of sometimes circulating water will not likely overheat. If you want you can seal the box from the atmosphere of the garage and vent the box to the outside . Probably not need a fan just two ducts arranged to facilitate convection with dampers to close off for cold weather if desired. Only needed if there is a reasonable chance of overheating something.

Your "move all the equip to the garage plan" sounds like an excellent improvement to me! The pump will be frost free due to leakage heat from the water heater. Easier acccess, happier wife... what is the down side?

Is your garage heated, weather tight, and unventilated? I use antifreeze in my vehicles and just let the garage temps do their thing. I did not insulate the garage and it is open to the ridge and soffit ventilation. Circulation helps reduce the opportunity to produce explosive vapor concentrations.

Think your project through and engineer a solution that meets all reasonable considerations for safety and convenience (in that order.) It just sounds like way too good of an idea to give up on until you have exhausted all reasonable approaches.

Best of luck,

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[cwarrix]

I wasn't really concerned about the temp in the summer, just condensation. Probably not a real big issue especially if I have a place for small amounts of water to drain. It seems like the copper pipes going to the water softener sweat a lot when the humidity is high. Also the tanks on the water softener. Not a big deal.

I haven't given up on the idea yet, although I did have to put it on hold. I will most likely get back to this one as soon as the weather warms up enough to have the floor in the laundry room out for a few days.

Another idea I had was to vent the dryer into the enclosure for additional "free" heat during the winter. There will be an 8x16 hole going to the crawl space, so the aire from the dryer could come in through one end of the enclosure and then just escape into the crawl space? Just a thought [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

As for the vapor issue, the WH is electric, so I don't think there is anything on the bottom of it that could ignite anything. The only real danger would then be the pump motor which I could leave in the crawlspace, or mount on a pedestal over the top of the pressure tank. Saves space and gets it off the ground. I'm still working on how to mount the pump to reduce sound and vibration, and got a lot of good ideas on another thread on this board.

Thanks to all for the ideas and help! When I get started, I'll take some pictures in case anybody is interested.

Chuck

[Pat]

I'd rethink venting a dryer to anywhere but outside if it is gas. If electric it still may over humidify, cause condensation, promote rot, mildew, etc.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Electrick DHW heaters have thermostat contacts which create sparks when opening and closing. I'm a cautious citizen and would probably gasket the access panels or otherwise seal them up to prevent penetration by potentially combustible/explosive vapors.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]