Good cattle dog and friend?

[ThistleKop]

My friend Lady, a black&white border collie, age 13, is getting old and arthritic, as I am. She is very helpful in my small cow/calf operation. She has some faults but considering that I know little about training cow dogs, and that I trained her she does quite well.

Considering Lady's personality and our relationship, I feel that I should not bring another dog home until she passes on. I would like to hear opinions from people who use dogs working their cows. I would especially like to here from owners of working Border Collies, Australian Shepherds and Australian Cowdogs. I'm interested in their strengths, weaknesses and personalities. I chose the Livestock forum instead of Pets forum on CBNET hoping to get more useful input. Thanks.

TK

[Pat]

It has been my observation that a new dog will be taught by the experienced dog. A local equipment dealer leaves his gate open when he is open for business and there are cattle able to get to the gate BUT his border collie will not permit them to even think about getting near the gate. Same story, dog is getting on in years and he gets a pup. He is getting on himself and was not looking forward to having to try to train the pup. NO PROBLEM. Pup is smart and the old dog let him "help" so that in no time at all the pup knew the routines that the old dog had established. Now in cool weather the old dog spends more time close to the wood burning stove in the main building and doesn't handle every situation.

Your mileage may vary...

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I completely agree with Pat. Get a pup and let the old dog help to train him. We always do this with our dogs. We usually have three dogs or more working at a time but we're working sometimes a 1000 head of cattle.

As far as breeds your smartest dog is the border collie. But they are also the most timid. If you have really gentle cattle that won't ever fight get a border collie. If you have tougher cattle that will get on the fight, especially with calves at their side, the Austrailian cattle dogs are much better. They are alot tougher. Not all but alot of collies will lose confidence after getting kicked a few times. The Aus. will get kicked 100 times and keep coming back for more. The Austrailian shepherd is going to be somewhere in between the two. It won't be as aggessive as the Aus. cattle dog but more aggressive than the collie. And breeding plays alot in it too. I will never buy a dog that I can't see the parents work cattle. I've seen alot of worthless dogs in all three breeds. All are good dogs you just need to pick what works best for your situation and really look at the temperment of the breeding you're getting.

[ThistleKop]

<font color="blue"> I completely agree with Pat. Get a pup and let the old dog help to train him. </font color>

Thanks Pat &amp; Cowboydoc,

As I stated earlier, Lady while very helpful, has some habits that I hope will not get trained into the next dog. That's what I fear; It will get both the good and bad habits. Lady was rolled very severely as a puppy by an obstinate cow. I knew that probably would make her or break her with regard to agressiveness. Thankfully she got up and came back for more.

I guess I'd like to try training one again without her help.

Also Lady does not roam, watches our place quite well. How are the other two breeds in that respect? Thanks.

TK

If they are spayed and neutered you probably won't have a problem with roaming. If they aren't then I have never found one that would stay home in any of the three breeds. You will find that the Austrailian cattle dog is your best watch dog.

[johnday]

My buddy, Spike, Border Collie, and? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[mfaley]

TK,
when I first read your post I admit I thought you were headed down another path. If I had a good old dog I would sure find a companion they get along with. We have a 13 year old broke down and worn out Belgian Sheep dog that only works his food bowl any more. A year ago on a cold morning we found a half froze lab/mut mix in our back yard. Since then, that working dog has a bit more git along in his giddy up.

As others have mentioned your list of dogs is a good one though after owning our Belgian I would consider looking for another. If we could not find another Belgian, I think I sort of like the Aus Shep as the right mix of traits for what we want.

Best of luck.
Mark

[ThistleKop]

Mark,
Lady, with the help of 4 interic .81mg aspirins each morning is still quite active. She is amazing, helps me with the cows, helps mow 2.5 acres of lawn. When I am clipping my pastures with the bushhog, I've had to start confining her in the basement. This is for her own protection. She would trot until she could scarcely get up the next day. Have you used your Belgian to work livestock? What are Belgians' traits? Thanks.

TK

[ThistleKop]

<font color="blue"> and? </font color>

Johnday,

Beautiful dog, Borders are a remarkable breed. Did the "and" ending your post mean his father was a "smooth talking traveling salesman"? [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] He looks full-blooded border to me.

TK

[mfaley]

We did not get him to be a working dog but by nature and some input from some friends he sort of ended up that way.

Once he spent some time with some Border Collies he picked it up quickly. And, for a short time, that became a bit of a problem as he wanted to herd everything. A little more work and he could be called off. After looking at the working dogs it seems like a Belgian is between the Border collie and the aussie but tends to be just a bit bigger. We dont see many Belgians but our experience has been pretty positive.

Much like with you with Lady, we are forced to limit his activities. He still wants to run around but then he is crippled up for a week. It's tough to see his face light up when we drive by some cattle all the time knowing that he cant work......he surely loves having a job to do. Sounds like Lady is the same. By the way, how is Lady with a Frisbee?

Regarding that asperin thing......we did that for a while but then it started to upset his stomach. After trying a number of different things from the vet, we settled in on Deramax along with Glucosamine. Something to consider.

Best of luck with Lady.